General Strategy Question

Check2DRaiser · Reader of Souls Joined: 04 Nov 2009 Posts: 578

I was discussing the following situation with another fellow player:

Your up against a passive calling station type player and are dealt 84o in the BB. You both have roughly equal stacks and the blinds are 10/20. Your opponent min raises to 40 chips. What do you do?

My colleague says that he folds because his opponent is passive and hasn't been raising very much and thus he can easily fold his junk hand and wait for a better spot.

My contention is that when offered 3:1 odds on a call that the times I lose a small pot are more than compensated by the times that I win a big pot. Using pokerstove I figured that 84o is 30% to win vs. the top 10% of hands (which is a reasonable raising range even for the most passive player). Therefore being offered 3:1, to me, appears to be a turbo call.

What do you guys think???

Borg7 · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:46 pm Post subject:

Calling is profitable if you can get enough value out of your opponent if you hit. If that's the case, you're usually going to loose 3-5 small pots until you hit a good hand and win a big pot.
All in all, I think it's definatly +EV to call if you're up against a spewy calling station.

Brokerstar · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject:

I agree with the above.

However if he is calling everything then I often find myself folding my really junk hands pre flop if I am first to act.

My 72, 83, 84 type hands etc I am happy to let go but I will still limp a pretty wide range, just a range that is still going to be easy to play post flop and has some sort of flop potential.

Broker
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Jakester1288 · Baller Joined: 20 Feb 2011 Posts: 475

*Bump*

Interesting spot. I have ALWAYS just folded my trash hands vs calling stations, even in position, because they can often be dominated, and theres not many hands you can make and win big pots with with 84.

Would like to hear a few more peoples opinions on this, because if I'm losing EV by folding when it's more +EV to play these hands, I'd like to correct that.

blsmur · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:00 am Post subject:

yeah i think you fold 84off

because he call stn

if the blinds only 10 and 20 it might be ok to look

but what if your blinds at 50 100

why bother with 84 even when you make 2 pair you not a lock to win

so i am dumping it most of the time if
I think i have a reason to do otherwise I will

Simba · Enthusiast Joined: 30 Oct 2010 Posts: 84

I disagree, I'd call 84o in the BB vs a minraise by a calling station. Look at it this way:

1) He's a calling station. He's not going to be putting you to the test a lot post-flop if the flop is say Q64 and you want to get to showdown cheap with your marginal holding.

2) On a flop of T84 or something similar, you've got two pair, and then it's like "Oh happy days, he's a calling station", get a good-sized bet on all three streets for value.

3) If we hit nothing on the flop, we can easily just fold if he starts showing aggression.

So yeah, I'm calling all day here given how easy the spot is post-flop against this opponent type, and given the ridiculous implied odds we have against stations. FWIW I'm calling 100% in this spot pre. 32o vs 10% has 26.2% equity, which is enough immediate pot odds. Never mind the implied odds (which are massive)... Easy call. Smile

Borg7 · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:44 am Post subject:

84o is def a fold to a minraise Smile

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Simba · Enthusiast Joined: 30 Oct 2010 Posts: 84

Brokerstar · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:47 pm Post subject:

I personally still fold.

It may just be the case that Borgs game has evolved over the last 2 years since his original post.

He was playing $10 games when he made his first post and is playing $1000 games now so may be worth listening to him Rolling Eyes

Perhaps he'll pop back in and elaborate some more on his reasoning? Very Happy

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BetMagicMoney · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject:

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