can people help my end game thought processes please?

razor25 · Enthusiast Joined: 29 Jul 2010 Posts: 51

Hi guys. Firstly, apologies for the lack of HH. But as well as my specific example, I am after general strategy.

So, it is bb100, reasonably equal stacks, approx 1350 for me and 1650 for him. My read on him so far was that he was a bit hybrid. A tag pre flop (raised a lot of buttons, but did fold a fair few), but once the hand went live to the flop, so to speak, he turned into a complete station.

He 2x'd like he did 80% of the time and I reshoved with KJo. I guess what I am wondering is a few things:

1) Is this optimal given my read? I fail to see how calling with the hope of hitting a flop is optimal, because if we go to a flop, he ain't going anywhere.

2) I am not a maths guy, so please feel free to give me pointers on how to work out whether this is ok. And if it is ok, what other hands can I do it with.

3) I also often do this (against guys who can fold pre flop) with maybe A8o+. Is that ok?

Thanks. Apart from practising obviously, I think I have Broker's course down pretty well. It sets me up well for the majority of the game, but it seems the endgame - particularly oop - is worrying me. I just want to make sure I am not making some massive fundamental errors.

nachtwacht · Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:51 am Post subject:

http://www.cardrunners-ev-calculator.com/

Learn to work with that and all your questions will be answered.

U Cook Socks · Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:35 am Post subject:

KJ is a snap shove with effective stacks of 13-14bb v almost anyone, v some who raises 80% of buttons I'd have the chips in before he could blink.

If you don't know what effective stacks are, that is your first job.

These threads might also be worth a read.

http://tagpoker.myfastforum.org/about316.html

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com...et-shoving-25bb-effective-444194/

*Edit*

Just noticed you mentioned further down doing it with A8+ Versus someone with an 80% Btn raise, up to 25bb deep, any Ace is good enough to reshove with, and many other hands too, read the threads, they will help I think.
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razor25 · Enthusiast Joined: 29 Jul 2010 Posts: 51

Thank you people. Yeah I guess I was a bit worried that with complete ignorance of any end game maths, I could be making big errors.

I'll take a look at all suggestions and come back with my thoughts. At least 'feel' was correct!

In the meantime, as most of us have had Broker's help and are aware of his philosophies, could I play devil's advocate and suggest that he might advise flatting with the KJ and A8 because it lowers variance?

Obviously I am reshipping verses a loon because the hands are too profitable. I was just wondering though that the variance of what happened (he called and held with A9) is increased by my shove.

I am aware the 2+2 bods would say reship every time. Is there any other play do we think or am I chatting out of my behind?

U Cook Socks · Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:11 am Post subject:

I think you can flat at like 20 -25bb deep if you really feel it is going to be better. At 13bb deep, flatting is pretty awful imo, what you gonna do all the times you completely whiff? Which is going to be more often than you hit. There is no room to make a play or anything on the flop, unless you at least flop some equity.
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razor25 · Enthusiast Joined: 29 Jul 2010 Posts: 51

Yeah I get ya.

Ok, let me explore further. I'll have a good look at the threads suggested this afternoon (slow day at work!), so apologies if this is addressed in them. But what is optimal play versus different ranges at that sort of stack level?

So is flatting with KJ at 13bb ever good? What if oppo is total nit? Any hands worth doing if he opens 50%? 10%?

U Cook Socks · Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:19 am Post subject:

chesslw · Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject:

Tbh imo with KJ, AJ, KQ type hands I would rather make a 3bet to 225-275 induce villain to shove dominated hands over your raise. This is of course when you have no need to balance your rejam "bluffs" with 78s, 89s, J5s etc etc.

He shouldn't flat much since stacksizes are terrible for him (normally button can call 3bets wide since he has the implied odds in position, but this isn't true with 13bb), and even when he does, you can cbet/call profitably as a whole, as you are very rarely behind a button flatting range preflop.

Also you can 3bet bigger to set up a stop and go, though this achieves little when you have KJ since you won't be folding out better hands really on the flop...
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chesslw · Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject:

My previous post was in relation to "normal" villains (those who at least open >50% on the button). Of course if villain only opens 10%... then you have to fold imo unless you got reads that he opens weak and limps strong.

Just download pokerstove and play around. Soon you will gather enough intuition during live play to make quick +EV decisions without realising it.
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U Cook Socks · Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject:

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