[U Cook Socks]

I'm not sure if I am even allowed to do this to be honest.

Just lately I have been doing a fair bit of 3 betting light. I think players play so poorly in 3 bet pots, that if you play them well, it can give you a big edge. Obviously it's all about table image too.


I am really trying to improve my play in 3 bet pots. So i propose to use this thread for discussion of 3 bet pots, and posting hands of 3 bet pots you have played.


Few guide lines

(1) Don't really need you to post hands where you have a big hand like AA and flop a set, it's pretty simple. I'd like some hands posted where you are in a sticky situation. Discussion about how to proceed when you miss the flop, etc etc.


(2) The hands don't have to go to the river, they don't even need to get past the flop, just situations where you found yourself a bit lost. I will post some too obviously.

(3) They don't have to be hands where you 3 bet light (although you will probably get in more sticky spots with those)

That's about it. Hopefully it will generate some interest.

[JamEaze]

When Blazing 3bets - I just 4bet shove him, which results in him adjusting and 3bet shoving me instead

Will dig some out when I get home tonight and post, in particular, when you flop something like 2overs and a gutshot, are the situations where I really feel lost.

[U Cook Socks]

[icemanv6]

really interested in this thread actually, will be taking note as its definitely an area i can improve in!

[U Cook Socks]

Well I haven't got my database to hand on this computer. I can start off by discussing some general situations.


Firstly, we aren't ever 3 betting light someone who we know has no fold button pre or post flop right? We can 3 bet if they can fold pre flop as it is profitable, and it is even more profitable if they call light and check fold a lot of flops.

Obviously we wont always have these reads early on in a match, which is the main time for 3 betting light.  

What kind of hands do people use for 3betting light ? I actually like hands like 56s, as you are playing both ends of the deck. Like you can flop good draws that you can play aggressively, and weak pairs, but you are also repping big cards and over pairs when you 3 bet pre flop. Obviously the cards aren't the be all and end all, but I think it is good to select a good range for doing it. You don't want to be 3 betting hands really that you are in a tough spot when they 4 bet you. I also don't think hands like J10s or unsuited are good, as they play pretty well post flop, but often get dominated with hands like A10, KJ, KQ, Which are hands that often call 3 bets.


All that my be nonsense though, so I await responses.

[JamEaze]

[chesslw]

Here are my thoughts on 3betting- please tell me if anything is wrong, or needs improving:

I agree with blazing- I normally use a polarised range of strong premiums, KQ KJ type hands, and small suited connectors (or suited 1 gappers etc). This way you won't be dominated very much and the only sticky situation you can get into is if you flop some sort of pair with your suited connectors. Hands like KQ are good to 3bet imo since when you are called you often dominate them, you're not in bad shape against underpairs, and because of card removal, they won't have big premium pairs as well as AK, AQ which might reraise you that often.

-Against stations (pre and postflop)- I just only 3bet for value for obvious reasons, and against flop fit/fold types, I 3bet with junk in conjunction with premiums to balance my range and maximize equity- I improve my equity with junk (fold equity with cbet on flop), still have hands that play well like 78s by calling, and still get value with premiums. Obviously I can't play like this too often as they will feel overrrun and I don't want them to get out of their shell- so I do this in conjunction with match dynamic.

-I've had a few matches where villain seemed a decent tag and raises close to 100% of buttons. I've 3bet shoved on them very light in endgame situations with less than 20bb using a range similar to nash (since if he raises 100%, the game is exactly the same with you being SB and BB is doubled, and you have even more incentive to use nash rather than call because of positional disadvantage). I found that you can 3bet even lighter than nash here, but it obviously depends on match dynamic, since villain will change his (very exploitable) strategy.

I don't normally 3bet light against random villain early in the match since they could be of the maniac variety- in which case you lose the most valuable reason for it- fold equity, and have to fold out hands that would play well against this type- 78s etc. I've come across maniacs about 1 in 4 matches (at the 5 dollar level), and many others turn into maniacs after I've valuetowned them or caught their huge bluff, so I don't think 3betting light early on is +EV at low limits (I have found however confirmation to what brokerstar advocates- 3betting or rather just raising big with premiums normally gets called a lot- the general fish is very stationy). But against thinking players, it is a pretty good strategy since they are normally "fact finding" in early stages and don't want to get into tricky spots just like us.

Finally- I have really just played poker for a few months (playing a few games a day at most) so please take what I say with a pinch of salt...

[U Cook Socks]

[kierkegaard1]

3betting hands that are likely to be dominated is actually a reason why you SHOULD be 3betting them (especially if your opponent isnt 4bet shoving his dominating range)

[U Cook Socks]

[kierkegaard1]

say we have a hand like A4 against a nitty opponent. He's tight and passive. He picks up A9o on the button and raises. he hasn't raised much and we can figure he has a fair amount of good Ax in his range. we have A4 and elect to 3bet him. As he's nitty there's a good chance he'll be folding out a lot of the weaker part of his Ax range (say A7/A8 ) and also some other stuff that he has raised (perhaps KT/K9)
As it is, he calls with his A9. He only has one live card and one semi live card. We've taken away one of his outs, so he'll be missing flops a little more often than if we had 78s or something.
Also, if an A flops we can get away from the hand with relative easy when a tight passive player is interested in an A hi flop in a 3bet pot.
One last thing, with a hand like A9, if the 9 flops it likely won't be the top card and he wont feel too comfortable.
But in general the tight player will not pair up on the flop very often and we can bet and steal any flop which doesn't connect.

[U Cook Socks]

Thank you. That's excellent.

[kierkegaard1]

in fairness, i don't recommend lite 3betting at all to those who dont feel 100% comfortable in 3bet pots. Also, 90% of fish just aren't folding enough to make it worthwhile and waiting for big hands to 3bet with will often be most profitable. There's no need to balance any type of range against fish

[U Cook Socks]

[sausage]

Good idea for a thread. Could be interesting to see some tricky post flop spots. I am very rarely 3 betting the hands you mention like 76s as I prefer to play post flop with them in a smaller pot with a larger SPR.

I will often 3b hands like Kxs & Qxs as even if we are dominated our opp will still have to give up a lot on the flop and card removal makes it less likely that we are dominated & even less likely that we are dominated pre flop & we hit our broadway card post flop.

You are completely right that there are a lot of opponents at the midstakes that we should only be 3 betting for value.

[ChrisB]

My words of wisdom with 3/4bet pots is that people don't fold anything...fucking anything, so raise bigger for value...they will call.

[chesslw]

[dzikijohnny]