Spew or great value betting?

dzikijohnny · Spew or great value betting?

Not sure how I like my betting line here. The villains Bet/Fold numbers are 19/33 26/20 65/100 so he is a huge calling station but is also passive except on the river. Several times he has waited to the river to bet an ace tpbk or second pair type hand. The only other three bet pot we had really played I had when I had AK and cbet into a dry Q high flop and he had raised me and I had folded.

Because he is a calling station I had 3bet larger than 3x and was able to build a nice pot. I think given the board I should have bet pot on flop that extra 100chips would have meant the pot would have been closer to the remaining effective stacks and wouldn't have been such an overbet. (ty Brokerstar for getting me to thing about these things). But I am wondering what I would have done if he had shoved the flop. And I am wondering why he didn't do it. I am not sure it is a shove here. It is such a wet flop. I call these kind of flops "Ace Killers".

The overshove on turn was in part because I really didn't have anything else to do. I couldn't fold. And if I was beat I was beat but, I had overpair, flushdraw, straight draw and gutter straight flushdraw so I would have outs to anything.

61effective bb

Full Tilt, $5 + $0.25 NL Hold'em Tournament, 20/40 Blinds, 2 Players
[URL="http://www.leggopoker.com"]LeggoPoker.com[/URL] - [URL="http://www.leggopoker.com/converter"]Hand History Converter[/URL]

Hero (BB): 3,570
BTN: 2,430

Pre-Flop: (60) T

T

dealt to Hero (BB)
BTN raises to 80, Hero raises to 260, BTN calls 180

Flop: (520) 5

6

7

(2 Players)
Hero bets 420, BTN calls 420

Turn: (1,360) 9

(2 Players)
Hero bets 2,890 and is All-In, BTN calls 1,750 and is All-In

River: (4,860) A

(2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: 4,860 Pot
Hero showed T

T

and WON 4,860 (+2,470 NET)
BTN showed 7

K

and LOST (-2,410 NET)

dzikijohnny

Ps..to not show result do I edit the handhistory before I convert? Don't see how to do it after.

nachtwacht

You can indeed delete the results before you convert but that might give errors with the converter.

Another way is:

Convert the HH
Then paste it into your posting
Then delete the results

As to the hand....

I think your reasoning "lets shove, and if he calls I have outs" is not a good reasoning.

You have to think about why you are betting. Do you want to get called or do you want your opponent to fold ? In this case it is very unlikely that a villain will call you if he is still behind. You just got lucky that the drooler did.... shows how much of a calling station he is. However, when you move up the ladder, you will not encounter opponents like this. In my book therefore this is a bad play.

Why ? Because if you get called, 99% sure you are beat. If you are beat, you are better of investing less. So what if you are not beat ? Then you want to bet for value. Most villains call like a 3/4 pot bet way easier with some draw than they would your overbet. If you think your hand is still best, you have to make a bet that get called easier than the overbet you are making now.

So you did have other options on the turn... you could bet 3/4 pot. Then, if villain shoves on you, you can start reasoning that IF you call, you have the outs you are talking about.

owzthat

gutted the results where there... because I was just thinking to myself what would call thats worst? maybe some a9 etc hand. seeing as he is such a station id rather 3/4 the pot hoping he calls with draws or ak/q sort of hands.

in your defence you could say your protecting your hand against them drawing out but still in my books it would be the better play.

anyways at least theres some out there that are calling like this Smile

dzikijohnny

Ya I agree. It has been a leak of mine when playing overpairs out of postion.

icemanv6

Bet turn, or check turn.

If bet the turn with ace on the River i'd be inclined to check the river, that board is now ultra scary and be hard to see what your actually beating.

As it happens your opponent was quite bad, so your quite lucky, but as stated these kind of plays you won't get away with as you move up.

Just don't try to think how you did, it's kind of backwards thinking but you'll get out of it Smile

"I think your reasoning "lets shove, and if he calls I have outs" is not a good reasoning."

What nachtwacht said, as long as you learn from it, it does't matter that you did it.

Keep posting Smile

bridgegunner

i agree with a turn bet as that coule be a scare card for him too but an over shove like that is only getting called by worse more then half the time. obv u ran into a guy who was willing to dump off with at that point second pair. it worked out this time but i dont like the over shove u wont get any decent hand to that board to fold.

icemanv6

By the way I think this an important thing you need to learn below.

THINK about what you are beating, in this hand you are only beating on that Turn MOST time's in this situation something like a 7, and that's it, so many hands that beat you, flush, 2pair, straight.

It' a common mistake in my opinion at the lower level's and a bit of inexperience, just try not to think 'oh this board looks scary i'll shove and I have out's' and more of 'What am I beating here..not a lot now, let's try to get to showdown cheaply'.

It will come with experience, but try to think or even talk through the hand as it'll help with your thinking.