| Archive for Tagpoker Forum A friendly place for winning poker players to share their strategy to making money playing poker. |
| ChrisB |
Public Service announcement - Site SelectionHello guysI've been playing internet pokers for quite a while and during that time I have experienced my fair share of poker sites and networks. I sometimes get people who ask me about what site to chose and instead of writing the same thing hundreds of times I thought I'd just write a little guide here focusing on the biggest networks going by PokerScout. For those of you who don't know, PokerScout tracks the activity of online pokersites all with their respective players and tables. Anyway on with it. The deals I'm refering to can be found on http://www.tagpoker.co.uk/rakeback-offers.html if TAGPOKER does not have a deal with the site I'll write an estimate for what is reasonable. I'll be evaluating the sites from 1-10 in a few different categories. Action: Is there many players online, does it take 5 sec or 5 min to find a game? Safety: From a scale of 1-10 how safe would I feel about having my net worth on the site. Fishyness: How are the fish-to-reg-ratio? Software: Self-explanatory. Value: How is the rakeback? 1 - PokerStars.com Action: 10 - Any game, any stake, any time. Pretty much. Safety: 9 Fishyness: 7 Software: 10 Value: 2 Pokerstars is a great site for people who don't put in much volume and a great site for those who put in extreme volume (SNE) if you fall between those two you usually get a very bad return of your rake compared to the eu competitors. Great software, great customer service all-around great site to go with. Join the biggest poker site in the world directly - PokerStars.com. 
2 - Ongame (Betsafe.com) Action: 7 Safety: 8 Fishyness: 7 Software: 5 Value: 10+ Ongame has a horrible game client, a ridiculously fast structure for hu sng turbos (3 min blinds) - it does however offer some of the most ridiculous value of any poker site, and it has plenty of fish. If you sign with Tagpoker you can get upwards a $2K sign up bonus. For most that's probably a bit too big, but take a small one like the $500 bonus. It requires $800! in rake, equaling 62.50% rakeback on the bonus alone. On top of this you get their vip club which is around 15-30% for that volume - not a bad deal to get like 80+% rb! Note that this calculation is for tournies only and that their standard rake is 10% so your ROI will be slightly lower. http://www.tagpoker.co.uk/rakeback/betsafe-poker.html 3 - iPoker Network (TitanPoker) iPoker is the biggest european poker network. Action: 8 Safety: 8 Fishyness: 8 Software: 6 Value: 7 The software is only just a touch better than Ongame but the player pool is massive and the big competitors are in the sportsbetting business, so it attracts fish 
The bonus system is a little complicated to explain and rewards loyalty a lot more than other sites, but simplifed you get a sign up bonus, and then you rake something and whatever you rake is converted into a new bonus you get in the start of the month. They also have rake races and other promotions always running. It's really tough to evaluate your valueback, but a grinder who can reach like $1K should get a good chunk back, and so ranks pretty high on the value chart. The only problem is you can't really stop playing one month, since your valueback next month depends on your play in the previous. The HU sngs are very soft too
Be sure to check out mansion as well as to who offers the best promos Link: http://www.tagpoker.co.uk/rakeback/titan-poker.html Link: http://www.tagpoker.co.uk/rakeback/mansion-poker.html 4 - Boss Media (Fortune Poker) Action: 5 Safety: 8 Fishyness: 5 Software: 5 Value: 6 Boss media is a smaller site and in my opinion has worse software than even ongame. It's been a while since i played on Boss, but unless they made radical changes the software is SUPER bad. The standard rakeback on Boss is 30% with the caveat that you have to rake at least €100 - or no gold They also have additional value like signup bonuses and other fun stuff occasionally. Not a bad site, but because of the software a no-go for me.
I also think the HU SNG action is limited, but I'm not sure. 5 - Microgaming (Unibet) Action: 5 Safety: 8 Fishyness: 5 Software: 7 Value: 6 Very similar to boss media. The software however is very good once you get used to it. Not much to say. Has decent action on most games. The valueback is good with 30% base and added value with the signup bonus. Wouldn't be a top go for me, but its definitely not a bad idea. 6 - Merge The new place for all the american fish! Action: 8 Safety: 6 Fishyness: 8 Software: 9 Value: 6 Not much to say. Excellent value in 55%+ possible valueback, excellent software and game selection. The only problem I have is everything that's going on with DOJ and US poker, and that the Merge skins are kinda small players. If you do chose Merge I'd go with Carbon which is the biggest skin. Here is the link: http://www.tagpoker.co.uk/rakeback/carbon-poker.html Final mentions of TagPoker deals: Cake: Site almost dead, network in solvency issues and mediocre software. Easy no-go for me. Everleaf: Although it has plenty of fish and decent valueback (40% usually) there just isn't enough action at all to justify playing there, software is decent but nothing great. PKR: Uhm, if you're serious about poker you shouldn't be playing on PKR - period. That rounds up all the Tagpoker deals, here's a final note on a few that wasnt covered. Entraction: Decent software, not a whole lot of action and the site is hugely populated by rakebackgrinding regs because of their insane rakeraces and bonuses. With that being said its not a bad deal if you dont mind some tougher opponents. PokerStars.FR: French players are god awful, but I'm not sure they are awful enough to excuse the extra rake...I'd stick to .com if i could. PartyPoker: Good software, very very safe company (publically traded), the action is average and the valueback is poor (on level with Pokerstars), has absurd rake on low stakes sngs not recommended for sng players. Full Tilt poker: Uhm, yeah...Stay away. Forever. And Ever. That concludes my round-up. If you have any questions feel free to ask here in the thread or PM. Chris |
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| MrJayOMG |
Thanks for this Chris, interested in what goes into your evaluation of safety considerations. | ||||
| ChrisB |
Basically the bigger the company the better. You can't just say that a network is safe, which i may or may not have done in the OP. You want to play with the biggest sites, to avoid bankruptcy. Do you guys remember the microgaming scandal with battlefield poker and the TUSK processor? With that said my safety ratings don't say a whole lot. I think the only concern I have is playing smaller skins with rouge affiliate deals and US sites like Cake or Merge, whilst merge is a great alternative I just can't justify rating the saftety of PartyPoker (a clear 10+) equal to Merge with the way the US legislation is going. So cliffs: Find your network and then find a big trusty skin, preferably with not just poker (eg: Betfred, William Hill, Paddy Power for iPoker) they are some of the largest bookmarking companies in the world and should be safest. Another tip: Don't keep your entire BR on a site. Keep most of it on a e-wallet like Moneybookers or Neteller, then transfer depending on your needs. Most sites have almost instant withdrawals anyway. |
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| Kim Cardassian |
I think you should re-evaluate your fishyness ratings. Ongame has virtually no regs. The ones that do sit you are god awful. Now I haven't played like the $500s, but since there's only 5% rake on those I expect them to have alot of very good regs that are just sitting these games on the side for more action. But at the lower levels it's really uber fishy. You can play $20s there and they're comparable to FTP $5s. There's just no way it's matched in fishiness with PokerStars. Of course, the rake is just too high to consider them below the $500 level and the fishyness just doesn't make it up except maybe at the $100-$200 level.
iPoker I really never played (Only 6max and FR cash), but I doubt it's fishier then ongame because iPoker is basicly "Da place to be" for Euro HU SNG regs. |
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| doodiewiz |
Thanks for the post Chris. Much apreciated mate. I would have though ipoker would get a higher saftey rating, but i see you factored in size of company. I've played there before when i first started and quite liked the site, but i agree with your analysis pokerstars is a great site. Shame there are no juicy rakeback deals... | ||||
| ChrisB |
Every single site at <20 will feel fishy, no doubt. I've played over 2000 $22 sngs and I've definitely played some solid guys in between. The fishyness rating is not an absolute method, its simply a comparison. I do believe ongame is one of the fishier sites, but you also have to combat 10% rake and the most horrid software out there. |
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| BetMagicMoney |
very nice man, defiantly worth a sticky <3
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| savrababa |
Awesome post!
Great help. Saved me from many hours of searching. Thanks for the effort Chris. |
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| NinjaReads |
What's PKR like? I noticed it has rakeback. Are there many HUSNGs on there? | ||||
| butitwassooted |
You didn't mention that Microgaming has 10% rake, not to mention a beyond terrible structure. If I remember correctly, levels increase every 10 hands. lol at that. | ||||
| BetMagicMoney |
The structure is really bad, use to play on there, upside is players are terrible 
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| chesslw |
^^ Is it even possible to play there without the crappy 3D stuff? Does HEM even work there and can you multitable?
I suppose looking at the software it should be attracting a lot of fishes and will tilt most regs... |
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| NinjaReads |
They've just released the 2D option http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com...peak-new-2d-pkr-software-1056089/ But I think BMM is right, I cant see the structure on their site but I have a feeling it's the same as Ipoker, maybe worse. 30% rakeback though might make up for that. I might check it out when I've cleared the Stars bonus. No HEM might be a deal breaker though. |
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| Pltinum |
I can vouch for boss media having awful software. Structure is bad at the 5's as well.
It does have decent rakeback though. |
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| savrababa |
A bit confused..
Been looking into Titan Poker and Mansion Poker promotions.
So if I play the $5.25 I rake 0.25 per match. So 4.25 points per match. 120 points = $1 => 28 matches = $1 200 matches (approx. monthly volume) = $7 $5 increments paid so total gain = $5
So again playing the $5.25 I gain 105 points per match. 6.5 points = $1 => 1 match = $16 ??? 200 matches = $3200 
What am I not getting here? |
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| NinjaReads |
The tournament entry fee is the juice, the bit after the plus sign in a $10+$1 tournament.
Ipoker bonuses are always rubbish to clear. I hope FT comes back to life under a new buyer and keeps the 27% rakeback. |
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| savrababa |
So it's 20 MCPs per $1 in rake paid then?
so 5 point per match 13 matches = $10 200 matches = $154 still looks too much.. |
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| NinjaReads |
I've just looked on Mansion's website and the first deposit is 200% up to $2,000. For every 500 Mansion Club Points earned, $5 bonus will be released as CASH. 20 online poker points will be awarded for every $1 spent in tournament fees. So it looks like you need to spend $25 in rake to get $5. Pokerstars first deposit needs 170 points for every $10 released at 5.5 points per $1 rake which I think works out at $10 for every $30 rake or thereabouts and let's you clear it over 6 months with up to 3 deposits. Seems a better deal and the blind structure for husngs on Ipoker is terrible. Level 3 blind is 50/100. Ipoker first deposits are always rubbish. If they did rakeback they would be in a solid number two position in the market but they prefer to plod on with players logged in barely reaching 5 figures. edit: Ipoker husng blind level 4 is 50/100, level 3 is 30/60, 7 minute levels. |
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| BetMagicMoney |
no for mansion i think the math is,
1 match = 5 MCP = ~$0.77 per match 200 matches = $154..... I guess thats right then lol works out as 77% percent rakeback while you clear your bonus, sounds pretty awesome 
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| The Little Fish |
Can you only get a deposit bonus once per site? | ||||
| savrababa |
I like Carbon poker a lot too but I'm a bit weary with it not being the safest choice as Chris states in the OP. Either way my choice isn't going to be too committing. I am a b/e player atm so a good deal will help me tons. If I choose mansion and clear the bonus then I could easily withdraw and go somewhere else right? |
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| NinjaReads |
6.5 mansion points to clear $1 doesn't seem right at all, I'd be surprised if it's not 100 points per $1. I'd definitely check that out with them first. Ipoker bonuses normally clear around 20% at the most. | ||||
| savrababa |
But they need to reply soon cause it's the 3rd day with no poker and I'm not working this weekend so I need to get a deal fast.. One more question.. Any of you guys has used one of those e-wallet services? How do these work exactly? Are they useful? Are they safe? |
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| sausage |
Depends on the site. Fortune used to have pretty frequent 100% reload bonuses, but now you have to not play for 6 months to get one. |
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| savrababa |
This is the answer from Mansion poker to my enquiry about their initial bonus offer: Dear Customer, Thank you for choosing Mansion Poker. This is Angel from the Support Team. To avoid any confusion, please bear in mind that tournament fee is different from rake. As we mentioned earlier, you will earn points by the amount of the fee that you payed in a tournament and NOT by the amount of rake that we acquire in the table. This means that if you will play 400 tournaments with a fee of $10 each, you will earn 80,000 mansion Poker Points. So if the bonus that you received is $1200, you will be able to redeem the full bonus amount. This is based from the offer you saw in the link which is $1 bonus in every 6.5 MCPs you earned. Please ensure that you will download the poker room from the link provided so you will get the redemption rate stated in the offer. Thank you. It still looks like bullshit to me since a $10 match gives you 200 points. So 1 $10 match clears $30 from the bonus 
Anybody can spot something that I missed? |
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| ChrisB |
yeah the support team is talking about a SNG with $10 in rake, like $50+10 or whatever the format is on iPoker. not a $10+1 as you are talking about |
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| savrababa |
But they presicely said: As we mentioned earlier, you will earn points by the amount of the fee that you payed in a tournament and NOT by the amount of rake that we acquire in the table. They even put caps on the NOT
Either way even if it's rake they are talking about I will need 300 games approximately to clear my bonus. If they have a 5% rake system (which I think they do) then this means that I would have raked $150 in those 300 matches and receive a bonus of $460. So this is like a 300% rakeback
I still feel like there is a catch somewhere but I'm probably going to make a deposit tomorow and see what happens. |
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| ChrisB |
Basically the support agent seems to be wanting to clarify that if you play a $10+1 you are not paying a dollar in rake, you are paying a dollar in tournament fees, which ultimately is just semantics
And yeah your numbers are obviously way off. You get 20pts per $1 you rake, and you need 500 points to get just $5 released, which means 20% rakeback from the deposit bonus. Any other figure or number is incorrect. Even Betmagic's calculations are incorrect :p if you assume the $10+1 level you'd need to play 25 matches to get $5 back from the bonus, which means $0.2 per match. Obviously they also give you like 30% rakeback on top or something like that, so it's not the worst deal in the poker world. |