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ScootNM

Player Definitions?

Hey guys,

This might be a repeated question, but I did my due diligence in searching a few different ways...

I'm wondering if there is a good post that goes into the definition of player types, specifically their tendencies with HUSNGs.  As I read hand histories on here and have watched some of the videos, I beginning to understand how important it is to have a good grasp of this.

I know what a LAG, TAG, LP, etc. player is, but in the past I relied mostly on my HUD to tell me most of that information.  I don't use my HUD much (so far) for HUSNGs, so I'm wondering if there are standard tendencies or characteristics for player types, specifically low stakes HUSNGs.

Thanks!

Scott
ChrisB

huh? If they play a shit ton of pots but check-call a lot more than they bet-raise then they are loose passive. If they play every but and raise/bet they are LAG, if they fold a lot of buttons and bbs but bet-raise once they get something playable they are TAG

or did i completely misunderstand?
stuckintilt

Hey Scoot! I'm fairly new to hu sng's and I had the hardest time trying to figure out playing styles. I always got caught up in the game and failed to take note of how my opponent was playing. To help myself, I made this table in excel and would put a check next to each item every time I noticed it.

LAG's
They call lots of raises
Raise your bets often
Doesn't let you limp
IP and OOP will punish weakness
Often times bets erratically like this as he doesn't want to get to show down with his weak holdings

TAG's
Pretty much the same with several exceptions:
Will fold out trash
Wont attack your limps as much
Plays his position
Usually has a hand by showdown

LP
Plays ATC
Calls way too many raises
Calls multiple streets
Usually will show up with junk on showdown

TP
Folds to raises often
Gives up easily when you make a play at the pot
Has a hand by showdown if he's been calling you down
Brokerstar

This will most likely help you.

Heads Up Poker Opponent Types

Broker
ScootNM

Thanks Stuck and, yes, Broker..that is exactly what I was looking for.  Again, seeing these types of players at a full ring game is a bit different than HUSNG....especially since you have to find out what type of player they are while still playing in most hands, rather than being an observer.

Scott
z1s6arn

TAG POST_ABOUT PLAYER LABELLING

z1 did not write this post!

I think the standard 2x2 matrix of LAG, TAG, station, and weak-tight is too simple. People's styles preflop and postflop vary - and how they play the flop may varies from how they play as showdown approaches.

In HU, we are really playing two different games: one as button/SB and one as BB. This game splits into 3 bahaviors as we look at ranges where the player will head to the flop in a limped, raised, or 3bet pot. Each player decides their raise size, typically 2x, 2.5x, or 3x for the button, and 3x or 4x when the BB raises a limp. Often as effective stacks get small relative to the blinds, raises become shoves, and it's an interesting characteristic of a player as to when this occurs. 10-13 big blinds is somewhat standard, but I think better players adapt this to their opponents.

It's important to realize that opponent styles often vary dramatically between button and BB. For example, I raise very widely on the button, but call tightly as BB. 3betting as BB is fairly player specific and depends on how wide they raise and how often they call 3bets.

To answer your question directly, here's some common pre-flop player patterns:

button limpers - limp all or most hands
button minraisers - typically start out 2x'ing 85%+
button raisers - typically start out 3x raising a lot (eg 70-90%)
balancer - these guys do mix of both limp and raise
button aggros - degens making strange raise sizes like 5x+ , open shoving deep, etc...

standard tighties - low VPIP (typically 20-40%)
pre-flop stations - call mostly from the BB (40-80%)
nits - aren't playing much OOP at all vs raises (<20%)
3bet monkeys - are 3betting heavily, say > 20%
limp smasher - chronically raises limps, assumes limps are weak


Flop play is another dimension. In raised pots, on the flop you've got the cbet game and the donk bet game that can be played. The cbet game is about how often the raiser cbets, how much, and what the other players ranges for fold, call, and raise are. The donk bet game will be more about what kinds of hands the donk bettor fires out with. Do they donk with top/mid/bottom pair, air, draws, or some mix of these. Depending on what the button raiser thinks about their opponents donk range, how often do they raise/call/fold. Paired boards come up enough that there are patterns around them too.

So flop player patterns are:
Raised pots:
heavy cbetter - cbets 80+%
normal cbetter - cbets 60-80%
weak cbetter - cbets 20-60%
non-cbetter - cbets almost never
oversized cbetter - cbets pot or more
donk better - leads the flop a lot in raised pots a lot, with some mix of these:
- air donker
- strong hand donker - donks top pair or better
- weak pair donker - donks second or bottom pair
- draw donker
check-raiser - somebody check/raising unnaturally often as a play (say 20%+)
cbet station - somebody who floats a lot and calls 50%+ cbets
fit or fold player - somebody who folds unless they hit the flop well, fold to cbet 70%+
paired board bluffer - will raise or float paired boards with air
paired board nit - plays fit or fold on paired boards, especially vs a cbet

As we get into the turn and river, things get more complicated. A key calculation is how honest their bets are bluffer vs non-bluffer, what their bet sizes mean, and how they handle draws.

This is where I think the traditional labels apply most:
station - will pay 2 or 3 streets of value with weak pairs
chaser - unaware or overestimates implied odds, will pay too much to chase draws
overbetter - often makes bets pot size or bigger
maniac - tries to blow you off the hand if you look weak or scare cards hit.
trash checker - these players never stab bad hands
weak-tight - wants strong hand (eg top pair + ) proceed on the turn
honest - never bluffs, raise = strong hand
big bluffer - bluffs more than what's balanced
slowplayer - will often check and/or call with a big hand
missed draw bluffer - will chase draws and bluff the river when they miss
pot controller - chronically turn checks after cbet, with anything below a monster

I try to use these labels consistently in my notes and to use them to think about adjustments AND use colours to label people too!
ScootNM

Awesome write-up, thanks!
z1s6arn

When I first read it I was impressed too!

I however just scanned it several months back, thinking yeah some good ideas in there, ahh I might learn that some day..... I'm now reading this post several months later and rewriting it and ingraining it into my skull no matter what it takes!

Hint hint! x
ScootNM

I'm a paired board nit FOR SURE.  I rarely take a stab at these boards and it just doesn't seem worth getting myself into an awkward spot.  Need to work on that.
tmle09

z1s6arn wrote:
TAG POST_ABOUT PLAYER LABELLING

z1 did not write this post!

I think the standard 2x2 matrix of LAG, TAG, station, and weak-tight is too simple. People's styles preflop and postflop vary - and how they play the flop may varies from how they play as showdown approaches.

In HU, we are really playing two different games: one as button/SB and one as BB. This game splits into 3 bahaviors as we look at ranges where the player will head to the flop in a limped, raised, or 3bet pot. Each player decides their raise size, typically 2x, 2.5x, or 3x for the button, and 3x or 4x when the BB raises a limp. Often as effective stacks get small relative to the blinds, raises become shoves, and it's an interesting characteristic of a player as to when this occurs. 10-13 big blinds is somewhat standard, but I think better players adapt this to their opponents.

It's important to realize that opponent styles often vary dramatically between button and BB. For example, I raise very widely on the button, but call tightly as BB. 3betting as BB is fairly player specific and depends on how wide they raise and how often they call 3bets.

To answer your question directly, here's some common pre-flop player patterns:

button limpers - limp all or most hands
button minraisers - typically start out 2x'ing 85%+
button raisers - typically start out 3x raising a lot (eg 70-90%)
balancer - these guys do mix of both limp and raise
button aggros - degens making strange raise sizes like 5x+ , open shoving deep, etc...

standard tighties - low VPIP (typically 20-40%)
pre-flop stations - call mostly from the BB (40-80%)
nits - aren't playing much OOP at all vs raises (<20%)
3bet monkeys - are 3betting heavily, say > 20%
limp smasher - chronically raises limps, assumes limps are weak


Flop play is another dimension. In raised pots, on the flop you've got the cbet game and the donk bet game that can be played. The cbet game is about how often the raiser cbets, how much, and what the other players ranges for fold, call, and raise are. The donk bet game will be more about what kinds of hands the donk bettor fires out with. Do they donk with top/mid/bottom pair, air, draws, or some mix of these. Depending on what the button raiser thinks about their opponents donk range, how often do they raise/call/fold. Paired boards come up enough that there are patterns around them too.

So flop player patterns are:
Raised pots:
heavy cbetter - cbets 80+%
normal cbetter - cbets 60-80%
weak cbetter - cbets 20-60%
non-cbetter - cbets almost never
oversized cbetter - cbets pot or more
donk better - leads the flop a lot in raised pots a lot, with some mix of these:
- air donker
- strong hand donker - donks top pair or better
- weak pair donker - donks second or bottom pair
- draw donker
check-raiser - somebody check/raising unnaturally often as a play (say 20%+)
cbet station - somebody who floats a lot and calls 50%+ cbets
fit or fold player - somebody who folds unless they hit the flop well, fold to cbet 70%+
paired board bluffer - will raise or float paired boards with air
paired board nit - plays fit or fold on paired boards, especially vs a cbet

As we get into the turn and river, things get more complicated. A key calculation is how honest their bets are bluffer vs non-bluffer, what their bet sizes mean, and how they handle draws.

This is where I think the traditional labels apply most:
station - will pay 2 or 3 streets of value with weak pairs
chaser - unaware or overestimates implied odds, will pay too much to chase draws
overbetter - often makes bets pot size or bigger
maniac - tries to blow you off the hand if you look weak or scare cards hit.
trash checker - these players never stab bad hands
weak-tight - wants strong hand (eg top pair + ) proceed on the turn
honest - never bluffs, raise = strong hand
big bluffer - bluffs more than what's balanced
slowplayer - will often check and/or call with a big hand
missed draw bluffer - will chase draws and bluff the river when they miss
pot controller - chronically turn checks after cbet, with anything below a monster

I try to use these labels consistently in my notes and to use them to think about adjustments AND use colours to label people too!


this is a super post!!! Very Happy
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