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| Gunnar |
Nash ranges, when to use them and how to adjust themhi!i just wondered about the nash pushing ranges and how to adjust them against specific playertypes. i´ll try to explain how i handle the time from the beginning of the push or fold phase till stacks get really really short. maybe somebody can ad some of his thoughts about some aspects. when the stacks are getting shorter, something around 20bb, i try to play postflop so i wont openpush many hands preflop (as long as the oponent does not force me to do this with showing me that he loves calling openpushes with trash  )) except for hands like 22, 33 or 44, maybe 55 and 66 which are in general ugly to play postflop unless you hit a set, which does not happen very often.
this phase means also to me (in general) that i play a little bit tighter (high card value is really important, suitedness and connectivity does not mean as much as the time when stacks where deep) and hands with a good showdown equity and a bad playability are likely to be openpushed (exploitable!? yeah.. but i think in this case, this does not matter, villain wont be able to call profitable because he needs to fold so often..... NOMNOMNOMNOM big big bliiiinds for meee!!!). next phase, stacks are getting something around 15-12 bb deep. this phase sucks (to me ). theoretical, you are able to play a little bit postflop, but in reallife you will commit yourself with a cbet. openlimping, to me, is a mistake in this phase (as long as you know that your oponent wont play only fit or fold postflop). you are not able to steal the blinds with openlimping and most villains will attack your "weakness" (which can be easiely used for getting more value from stronger hands by openlimping them), so in my opinion, a raise is the only possibility (in normal cases) and because of the fact that you would be mostly commited with a cbet, in my opinion, a openpush should be the standart line here.
now we are getting to the point i want to talk about. i use a simple taktik for the pof phase of the game. i got a nash jpeg left to my table, i look at my hand, i look at the picture i look at the current stacksize, if the picture says PUSH, then i push... pu push it reaaal hard 
thats all. but wait... to easy, isnt it? at my stakes ( 6-10 dollar) EVERY villain makes mistakes against this perfect pushing range. you only can play be against, if you are using the same, but you cant beat it, thats so nice about the nash ranges. but as a thinking palyer, we want to get maximum value out of our play, right? ok. so what i am thinking of now is, in which way can we adjust the nash pushing ranges if, a) the oponent pushes and calls way looser than the nash ranges or b) the oponent is muuuuuch tighter than the nash ranges now my thought proces stucks a little bit, and to be honest i dont know if i am right with my following idea. in my opinion, the right adjustment to get maximum value against both oponents is, to openpush more loose than the nash ranges. in player a´s case, you can openpush more for value because the villains range is much wider, in player b´s case, he will fold much more often, so you get the blinds which is good to. what do you think about this!? |
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| Polycarpus |
To make this a rather short reply:
Almost all players are tighter than Nash. If you have the feeling they are a bit looser, I'd just stick to Nash. Theis mistakes will cost them. If your opponent seems much tighter than Nash, both in shoving and calling, I'd tighten up my calling range, but loosen my shoving range. The calling range because he won't be stealing much of your blinds anyway, and you don't want to get it in way behind. And loosen the shoving range because you will steal a lot of his blinds and once he calls you'll still have acceptable equity to win the hand. Hope this helps. PS: Don't forget it's not unexploitable to push hands from the Nash chart. You're only unexploitable if you push all the hands in the Nash chart. So if you're 20BB deep and you miniraise AKs & QQ but shove A2 & 33, don't trick yourself into thinking those shoves are Nash-certified! |
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| Gunnar |
as i said above, these shoves are nash certified because villain wont be able to call profitable even if he knows your exakt hand. i maybe wrong, but i think it is the same deal as the Sklansky-Chubokov push from the short stack strategie from cash game. the villain just needs to fold so much that stealing the blinds itself makes this move profitable. | ||
| Wannawin |
nash and Sklansky-Chubokov are different things.
I'm at work, so cant access, but google and read spamz endgame post on 2+2 |
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| Gunnar |
i know that they are different things, but in this case, for example, pushing 44 with 18bb stacks works the same way the slansky push works. | ||
| Wannawin |
this is NOT nash - this is Sklansky-Chubokov NASH is being unexploitable against your ENTIRE range, so you can't opt for more optimal lines with some hands. all of these strategies are discussed as being unexploitable - not optimal. nachtwacht worked out the differences between nash and S-C fairly recently, and their was not a huge difference in the amount of equity to be gained or lost. as mentioned (if you can be bothered) google and read spamz endgame post on 2+2, which goes through the different end game stratagies and the pros/cons of using them |
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| Gunnar |
ok, you missunderstood me.
i said in those SPECIFIC spots, like openpushing 22, 33 etc with 18 bbs, it works exaktly the same, cause villain cant call profitable. this is a move to make postflop life easier, i dont do this with much other hands. and because of the fact that this will work like the slansky pushes, it does not matter if villain knows the exakt hand you are pushing, so exploitability doesnt matter. |
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| The Angler |
Thanks for the reference to spamz post in the 2+2 forums, hadn't seen it before.
Here's the link for anyone that's interested http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com...ads-up-sage-nash-chubukov-560408/ |