is this just VARIANCE OR ME

blsmur · is this just VARIANCE OR ME

here is the graph from my holdem manager showing my profit loss
and ev curve s

I have to wonder if I am just unlucky or am I doing something wrong

i have asked for some sweats but none yet

My thinking is I have been a bit unlucky with my shoves etc
but to be unlucky for so long seems unlikely so I am now thinking I am doing something wrong
now mixed in this is some winning streaks of 7 8 and 9 wins
and some losing streak of up to 5 in a row

Click to see full size image
any way my reason for posting is to get feedback about this ,has anyone else experienced this sort of thing or is it me playing bad
Thanks

ChrisB

Looks like variance yes :/

YATHINNK

It's you.

BetMagicMoney

i think getting a HH review is probbally a good idea mate, it is possible to BE for this long, but its very unusel tbh!

aggsyb

What gametype is it? turbos , reg speeds etc? I know very good players who have broke even over 650+ games @ stars reg speeds but I would deffo get some gamereviews to help look for leaks

U Cook Socks

blsmur

i play reg speed $2 games on fulltilt

I feel I am over aggressive

I seem to invoke some sort of rage in my opponent

and they end up shoving on me a lot

and then if I dont call i lose chips so we end up all in a lot of the time preflop

I am most likely on some sort of tilt as I get sick of them

my last game was just 12 hands on the 11th hand

i have AJ
i raise 3x
my opponent 3 bets me

I shove

in hindsight i could have folded or just flat call

he shows AK
so I am toast

i guess i was unlucky he had a better hand
or I was stupid to continue after the 3 bet

i am having quite a lot of this type of out come

another hand i have a boat on turn and he call my shove as I wanted him too
and he river bigger boat
i have had a run of all the usual beats
aa beat by 99
TT beat by J8
and AQ beat by AJ
and so on
I am amazed at how many i have had to endure this last few weeks

i will try an figure out how post some hands
i dont have a hand converter

so while I am running bad I think I am letting myself get into those spots by making my opponents angry

and then ending up in them shoving way too often
so I have to call

My HEM say I should be +$30 and this is $70 different to what I am
when I tick $ev adjusted

sausage

Looks like you may have run badly over your last 100 or so games, but I'm afraid that if you are not making money after nearly 1000 games @ the $2 games then you almost certainly have some pretty major leaks.

Suggest you watch some of Broker's vids on how to beat the fish.

blsmur

yeah your right

but I have done his full course

and i have had an extra review from him

and sometime i play brilliantly

and sometimes I just muck up

i watch his vids most days and try to pick up what i am getting wrong

I have just played a good game and i didnt do anything outrageous

so slower playing style helps
i did get so burned in one of the hands when i have AK
and I raise he calls all low card flop

my tell is when he chk he is weak
and this time he was sitting on a set
i had him down to $700 and so i shove the AK

but a I ground him down again and finally won
he was not the agro type of player but very passive
and i walked all over him except for his trap hand

when i shove the AK i thought he has nothing and would fold

sausage

I suspect you need to be a little more patient & wait for villain to make really big mistakes (because 99.99% of them will at these stakes).

YATHINNK

Yeah it does seem like you're overly aggressive but it can 100% be variance sometimes, worth looking into though imo.

ChrisB

We all have off days or periods, it's about playing less when that happens and eliminate it as fast as possible.

blsmur

I am patient in everything except poker

i am trying to fix that

Laughing

blsmur

typical hand history
when i losing
i have played this guy a few times now
and i dont seem to ever win a hand against him
and every time i call him down he has the best hand

hopefully someone will have a look at his in the replayer
and tell me what is I am not seeing when against this player type

it is this type of player just bet the crap out of me and nothing i do seems to work

ok my tilt name is Aussiekiss

Click to download file

blsmur

i just did some research and i have played this guy 3 times
i win 2 lose 1

but i still not happy with my play against this type of pleyer

blsmur

I have slowed down and not taking the offer of ALL In
these player type love to give me

ie I raise 2 x from the btn and they reraise all in

i even folded TT to this RR in my last game

normally I would just go with it

so this left his all ins as virtually valueless as i stop raising preflop
and wont call his all in
he cant get lucky on me
this forced him to play some poker
and if he decide to shove every hand i can pick the best hand to call with

I don't know if anyone agree with my TT fold or not
but that is what i did last game and i was successful in defeating him

_red_dog

This seems like its u. Thats alot of games to be breakeven for at the $2s. Possible at higher stakes, shudnt really happen at the $2s.

U Cook Socks

NinjaReads

U Cook Socks

I have just had a quick glance through it.

I don't want to offend you, cos you seem to have taken offence when I have disagreed with you and stuff in the past. You have some huge leaks, that can be sorted pretty easily.

I don't have time to do it now, but I will post a review on here just to help you out a bit.

Just one thing to mention now, your bet sizing post flop is way to big.

blsmur

U Cook Socks

It's not because of bad luck mate. You need to stop thinking that. Having looked through that game, your game is pretty bad. Looking at it, it's hard to see what you got out of Brokers course.

I'm not trying to be rude, but you need to start putting a bit more in to it, if you want to beat it. Not money, just a little bit of effort to improve, nothing anyone writes, will make any difference , if you don't listen. If not, then I really would find another hobby.

I'm not an expert player, there are players so much better than me on the site, and I have seen you arguing with them, and me about things. Why would you do that ? I didn't, when I started I quickly found out who the good players were, and read what they said, and asked for advice from them. As I said, I'm not Tom Dwan, but I think most people will tell you I am well capable of beating the games you are playing.

So when I get home, I will do the review I promised, and add a little bit of advice about a few things. What you do with it, is up to you ofcourse.

blsmur

well
i try very hard to get it right

when i go all in preflop i use Nash
not much more i can do

when i miss read an opponent i have to live with it

the player that confuse me the most

are very aggressive

if i raise they 3 bet me all in

if i bet flop take a stab they re raise

so if they do that every hand for the first few hands i figure they are just bluffing

and so i call them down

now in that game he had something

in a lot of the game they have nothing

as for Brokerstars course I i have reviewed it and tried to do what he teaches

I watch the videos on here every day take note try to put the stuff from these vids in to my game

when i play a Tight player or a loose passive i win quite well

it is the loose aggs that kill me because i miss read them

i dont think i should give up poker but some help would be good

perhaps you would like to play me
or anyone else on this site would like to play me
and then tell me what it is they think i am doing wrong from their perspective

i am on fultilt and you can search for me
aussiekiss dont even tell me you a re playing me and then post something in here or call me on skype

As for the argument in the other thread
i think i misunderstood the dutch mans English

it is very easy to write something and have it taken differently by different people

U Cook Socks

Ok as promised. HH Review. I have taken the time out of playing to post this for you. I'm not saying my opinions are 100% perfect, they aren't. There will definitely be something you can take from this though. It's free help, use it as you will.

There is a simple concept that some people don't grasp, if you make less mistakes than your opponents, you will make money. Simple. Even more simple, the players you are playing at the $2s, will make tonnes of mistakes, not little ones either, great big whoppers, that are there for you to exploit. No need for fancy play or anything like that, just exploit the players you are playing.

Hand 1. K7s

At this point when you limp, I assume you are playing the style Broker taught you. This is absolutely fine. Personally I just raise K7s, but don't get hung up on that, limping K7 from the off is fine, and it's a good fold when he raises.

Hand 2 Q4o

You played the hand fine, but you don't need to bet pot on the river. If you look at the hand , he never has anything here really. No way he is checking the turn if he has a big piece of that flop. Just make a small value bet, and hope he has something to call you with. By smashing the pot button, you are just making him fold. He probably would have folded anyway, but it's good to get in to good habits, and realising what kind of hand your opponent has. For example he limped and stabbed the pot, that gives nothing away about his range, cos it is a pretty standard play to stab the flop. Then he checks the turn, now we know he doesn't have a great deal, at best a Q, probably nothing, or he may have turned a 9 and checked some showdown value. When you bet pot, if he had a 9, he may or may not call, if he rivered a 4 with 54 or something, he'll probably fold, but if you make it half pot he may well call.

Hand 4 A9o

This is a bad hand, there is a lot to learn from this hand. There is nothing at all wrong with 3betting A9 on the whole, but this early in the game we don't know what his min raise means, it could be his weak range , it could be his nut range, or it could just be his standard open size, we don't know. He limped a hand before, so we know he has a range for raising and a range for limping, but we don't know what they are yet.

Early on, I like to just flat A9, and get some post flop reads, it's a good solid hand to see a flop with. If you are going to 3 bet, then your 3 bet size is useless. 120 as a minimum, 140 is better. You acheive absolutely nothing by doing a 3 bet like that.

Cbet on the flop is okay, I probably make it a touch bigger, but not much, and on the whole half pot is okay I think. Obviously folding to the re raise.

Hand 7 J5o

Why are you betting full pot on the flop ? you have to bet of course, but 20-25 if will get the same result. This is why I'm not sure you were actually listening when you did the course with Broker, I know 100% he didn't teach you to pot it there. May seem picky, but all these chips add up, if he has a hand you lost an extra 15 chips for nothing, do that 100 times and you lost a buy in.

Hand 8 10 10

Again, why the small 3 bet ? You want value from this hand right ? 120-140 , 140 Is better imo. It's a sick flop, I'd still bet small on it and hope to take it down. If you bet the flop, I think you would have got to showdown with it much cheaper. I was expecting to see a King, or a weak Ace the way he played the hand, he is never betting 3 streets here with nothing. Or at least we have no reads he is capable of doing this. This hand alone cost you half your stack, it simply didn't need to.

Hand 9 A8o

Down to around 35bb effective stacks now, min raising is far better pre flop imo at this stage. If you don't know what effective stacks are, then you need to learn it. I'm not going in to it now in to much detail, but if you post a thread, I am sure you will get some answers. I think you can still get away with 2.5 at 35bb deep actually, but I prefer min raising.

Hand 10 87o

I think I just pitch 87o at this point, okay it's a min raise, so a call is okay, you have less room to manouvre post flop now though, with your chip stack getting shorter, that's not a major leak, I am sure there are plenty who will tell you to call there, but until you get better post flop, in this spot, I would muck it.

Post flop, this is why I don't like calling with these stack sizes, with full stacks here, you can check raise him here, or float him (i prefer the check raise) but if you check raise it costs you to much. I guess peeling one is okay here, but I'm not in love with it, your turn play is pretty gross though, I'm not sure what you are aiming to acheive with that bet. Plays like that just aren't going to work versus your average $2 fish. I know it sounds weak, but just check/folding is your best line here imo.

Hand 11 10 6o

When you had nothing earlier you smashed the pot button, but now you have top pair on a wet board, you only bet half pot. 25-30 Is good here, I may even go for 35 on this board v this player with top pair. There are so many hands you get value from. You don't want to go crazy with your top pair, but you are in position, so you can control the pot better on later streets.

What are you doing on the turn ? Betting over pot ? What you doing if he shoves on you there ? You are likely to be good here most of the time, and you want to bet to charge draws, and value bet weaker hands, but you don't need to bet that much. 55-60 Is much better. On the river you have to call obviously, I am guessing you were a little bit worried though by this point.

Hand 13

Q8o, just out of interest , what made you raise Q8o ? Nothing wrong with it at all, just curious, as it seems in the middle part of your range, which you have limped throughout. Min raise only when effective stacks are this shallow. You don't have the chips to waste if he shoves over the top of you, and the pot is bigger post flop also.

Hand 14 57s

I hate the call pre flop, you don't have the chips to call with hands like this now. 3 bet shoving is better than calling, but I would reccomend a fold v a player who probably calls far to wide.

Post flop, why are you leading out here ? If I had called with this, by misclick or if I had a brainwave or somet, I am check shoving this flop, you have fold equity, as he is going to be stabbing that flop with hands that simply can't call a shove, and you still have a fair bit of equity if you are called. By leading out, if he raises/shoves, you really have to fold, which you really don't want to be doing at this point. It sounds a bit retarded when you put it like that, but I am pretty sure I am right. Turned out he had AQ, and probably would have called, he may not have though, and if he did, you aren't in that bad a shape.

Hand 17 82s

Just open fold this, at this point.

Hand 19 AKo

Just min raise pre flop. I don't think I like calling the flop here, just raise and get it in, if he has you beat here, then good luck to him. You bet big on the turn, but he is rarely calling there, unless he has you beat with a Jack. If he is bad enough he may call with a fd, but I mean the whole hand felt horrible from start to finish. Limping AK is okay if he is the kind to raise your limps, he has twice so far, but I mean I am guessing they were for value, as he has checked every other time.

Hand 21 K10o

Min raise is better again here, for the very reason that now he 3 bets you, you have wasted chips. I actually think the fold is okay here, given that he hasn't 3 bet you at all so far. He has a big hand here often in my opinion, a medium-strong hand would be more likely to just shove. You can shove over the top here against some opponents and be happy about it, but I actually think the fold is pretty good in this case.

Final hand

I don't understand this at all. I prefer just 3 bet shoving, but if you are going to make the 3 bet there, you have to shove any flop. The way you played this hand is such a big leak I can't even begin to explain. I think you have a problem understanding effective stack sizes, and what adjustments you need to make. I suggest doing some work on this as a starting point. 3 bet shoving here is pretty standard imo. 3betting and check calling the all in on the flop, is just horrible.

There were a few spots in there I found difficult to give you the answer too, cos I would never have found myself in that position in the first place. I would re watch Brokers course videos and really soak them up, if you have any questions, i am pretty sure he wouldn't mind answering them for you. Watch some more of the free videos on the site, and take in why he is making certain plays in certain spots. It is clear that you haven't really got what he was teaching you, that's not a dig, it's just honest. If you want to improve, you really need to work at it.

Just read your last post. I'm not having a go at you, everyone starts the same way. You are trying to improve, that's the main thing. All the information you need to beat the $2s and above is on this site.

blsmur

thanks for the review

i have taken notes on what you say and your correct

i will try and answer your comments below

"Blazing_Saddler:26468"]Ok as promised. HH Review. I have taken the time out of playing to post this for you. I'm not saying my opinions are 100% perfect, they aren't. There will definitely be something you can take from this though. It's free help, use it as you will.

i
There is a simple concept that some people don't grasp, if you make less mistakes than your opponents, you will make money. Simple. Even more simple, the players you are playing at the $2s, will make tonnes of mistakes, not little ones either, great big whoppers, that are there for you to exploit. No need for fancy play or anything like that, just exploit the players you are playing.

Hand 1. K7s

At this point when you limp, I assume you are playing the style Broker taught you. This is absolutely fine. Personally I just raise K7s, but don't get hung up on that, limping K7 from the off is fine, and it's a good fold when he raises.

my first few hundred games i limp almost all the time then i discover if i raise they fold , so now i limp until the blinds go up and then i try and raise if i going to play a hand but basically i think that is what brokerstar is teaching

Hand 2 Q4o

You played the hand fine, but you don't need to bet pot on the river. If you look at the hand , he never has anything here really. No way he is checking the turn if he has a big piece of that flop. Just make a small value bet, and hope he has something to call you with. By smashing the pot button, you are just making him fold. He probably would have folded anyway, but it's good to get in to good habits, and realising what kind of hand your opponent has. For example he limped and stabbed the pot, that gives nothing away about his range, cos it is a pretty standard play to stab the flop. Then he checks the turn, now we know he doesn't have a great deal, at best a Q, probably nothing, or he may have turned a 9 and checked some showdown value. When you bet pot, if he had a 9, he may or may not call, if he rivered a 4 with 54 or something, he'll probably fold, but if you make it half pot he may well call.

When i look at this hand on the replayer I remember thinking the bet was too big so half pot in future

Hand 4 A9o

This is a bad hand, there is a lot to learn from this hand. There is nothing at all wrong with 3betting A9 on the whole, but this early in the game we don't know what his min raise means, it could be his weak range , it could be his nut range, or it could just be his standard open size, we don't know. He limped a hand before, so we know he has a range for raising and a range for limping, but we don't know what they are yet.

Early on, I like to just flat A9, and get some post flop reads, it's a good solid hand to see a flop with. If you are going to 3 bet, then your 3 bet size is useless. 120 as a minimum, 140 is better. You acheive absolutely nothing by doing a 3 bet like that.

Cbet on the flop is okay, I probably make it a touch bigger, but not much, and on the whole half pot is okay I think. Obviously folding to the re raise.
I 3 bet hoping to take it down preflop I understand the bet is too small now so infuture i bet 3.5x his raise or limp
the cbet size I could have made 110 i think . the result would have been the same I am guessing

Hand 7 J5o

Why are you betting full pot on the flop ? you have to bet of course, but 20-25 if will get the same result. This is why I'm not sure you were actually listening when you did the course with Broker, I know 100% he didn't teach you to pot it there. May seem picky, but all these chips add up, if he has a hand you lost an extra 15 chips for nothing, do that 100 times and you lost a buy in.
My reasoning is I am trying to make him fold I wonder if he calls for 25 I am trying to get across to him I am strong , is he calling anyway if he has any pair ie 2 or a 4 as he knows he will be facing another bet on turn
is my reasoning just wrong ?

Hand 8 10 10

Again, why the small 3 bet ? You want value from this hand right ? 120-140 , 140 Is better imo. It's a sick flop, I'd still bet small on it and hope to take it down. If you bet the flop, I think you would have got to showdown with it much cheaper. I was expecting to see a King, or a weak Ace the way he played the hand, he is never betting 3 streets here with nothing. Or at least we have no reads he is capable of doing this. This hand alone cost you half your stack, it simply didn't need to.

I guess my 3 bet is too small again i think i will make it bigger next time but how big I know brokerstar says raise big with big hands so should i have made this 5x but if i do . do I then call a shove or fold.
I could have 3bet shoved but i am losing shoves so often I have opted not to shove if I dont have to .
I am confused on these things I know results orientatedness is wrong but i am down 35 buyins as a result of not winning shoves that i should win , well at least that is how i interpret my stats , correct me if I am wrong

Hand 9 A8o

Down to around 35bb effective stacks now, min raising is far better pre flop imo at this stage. If you don't know what effective stacks are, then you need to learn it. I'm not going in to it now in to much detail, but if you post a thread, I am sure you will get some answers. I think you can still get away with 2.5 at 35bb deep actually, but I prefer min raising.

my raise was 2.5bb i was prepared to call a shove here , perhaps that is wrong , i should either shove pre or fold to shove from him brokerstar did tell me i have flawed logic

Hand 10 87o

I think I just pitch 87o at this point, okay it's a min raise, so a call is okay, you have less room to manouvre post flop now though, with your chip stack getting shorter, that's not a major leak, I am sure there are plenty who will tell you to call there, but until you get better post flop, in this spot, I would muck it.

Post flop, this is why I don't like calling with these stack sizes, with full stacks here, you can check raise him here, or float him (i prefer the check raise) but if you check raise it costs you to much. I guess peeling one is okay here, but I'm not in love with it, your turn play is pretty gross though, I'm not sure what you are aiming to acheive with that bet. Plays like that just aren't going to work versus your average $2 fish. I know it sounds weak, but just check/folding is your best line here imo.

i have to agree with the preflop fold , once i was in the hand with the draw i was tempted to shove but chickened out

Hand 11 10 6o

When you had nothing earlier you smashed the pot button, but now you have top pair on a wet board, you only bet half pot. 25-30 Is good here, I may even go for 35 on this board v this player with top pair. There are so many hands you get value from. You don't want to go crazy with your top pair, but you are in position, so you can control the pot better on later streets.

What are you doing on the turn ? Betting over pot ? What you doing if he shoves on you there ? You are likely to be good here most of the time, and you want to bet to charge draws, and value bet weaker hands, but you don't need to bet that much. 55-60 Is much better. On the river you have to call obviously, I am guessing you were a little bit worried though by this point.

I honestly didnt think he had anything and was surprised to find him with same hand This is something wrong with my logic ???? the over bet was trying to charge him for staying in the hand i thinking he has a draw and i wanted him to fold , when he call s his river bet is either value or bluff I figured i had to call due to pot odds 400 in pot 120 to call

Hand 13

Q8o, just out of interest , what made you raise Q8o ? Nothing wrong with it at all, just curious, as it seems in the middle part of your range, which you have limped throughout. Min raise only when effective stacks are this shallow. You don't have the chips to waste if he shoves over the top of you, and the pot is bigger post flop also.

just part of the raise pre flop
broker star say limp 70% raise 30% approx in the low blinds and turn it up when the blinds go up i not getting a fold if i limp , maybe a min bet is better

Hand 14 57s

I hate the call pre flop, you don't have the chips to call with hands like this now. 3 bet shoving is better than calling, but I would recommend a fold v a player who probably calls far to wide.

So many call my raises when i holding AK AQ and they call with little suited connectors so i was trying same but it didn't work out and really I couldn't afford it

Post flop, why are you leading out here ? If I had called with this, by misclick or if I had a brainwave or somet, I am check shoving this flop, you have fold equity, as he is going to be stabbing that flop with hands that simply can't call a shove, and you still have a fair bit of equity if you are called. By leading out, if he raises/shoves, you really have to fold, which you really don't want to be doing at this point. It sounds a bit retarded when you put it like that, but I am pretty sure I am right. Turned out he had AQ, and probably would have called, he may not have though, and if he did, you aren't in that bad a shape.

when i look at this hand flop i think i should have just shoved flop as that was the reason for playing the hand
I didnt follow through, If i made a pair i would have

Hand 17 82s

Just open fold this, at this point.

Hand 19 AKo

Just min raise pre flop. I don't think I like calling the flop here, just raise and get it in, if he has you beat here, then good luck to him. You bet big on the turn, but he is rarely calling there, unless he has you beat with a Jack. If he is bad enough he may call with a fd, but I mean the whole hand felt horrible from start to finish. Limping AK is okay if he is the kind to raise your limps, he has twice so far, but I mean I am guessing they were for value, as he has checked every other time.

yes given my stack size i should have pushed the problem with min raise is they so often just flat and i am in a hostile flop again or they fold to my raise and i get no chance to make chips , is this flawed thinking again ?

Hand 21 K10o

Min raise is better again here, for the very reason that now he 3 bets you, you have wasted chips. I actually think the fold is okay here, given that he hasn't 3 bet you at all so far. He has a big hand here often in my opinion, a medium-strong hand would be more likely to just shove. You can shove over the top here against some opponents and be happy about it, but I actually think the fold is pretty good in this case.

Final hand

I don't understand this at all. I prefer just 3 bet shoving, but if you are going to make the 3 bet there, you have to shove any flop. The way you played this hand is such a big leak I can't even begin to explain. I think you have a problem understanding effective stack sizes, and what adjustments you need to make. I suggest doing some work on this as a starting point. 3 bet shoving here is pretty standard imo. 3betting and check calling the all in on the flop, is just horrible.

ok this is probably a mistake in my play i seem to do this exact thing from time to time I have made notes about it before but i keep doing it
When I review my games , I see this exact thing , I make more notes about not doing it
but in play i do it again
hopefully this is the last time

There were a few spots in there I found difficult to give you the answer too, cos I would never have found myself in that position in the first place. I would re watch Brokers course videos and really soak them up, if you have any questions, i am pretty sure he wouldn't mind answering them for you. Watch some more of the free videos on the site, and take in why he is making certain plays in certain spots. It is clear that you haven't really got what he was teaching you, that's not a dig, it's just honest. If you want to improve, you really need to work at it.

Just read your last post. I'm not having a go at you, everyone starts the same way. You are trying to improve, that's the main thing. All the information you need to beat the $2s and above is on this site.

When i play well i make notes on the players and get reads and timing tells
and usually win when i am doing that
It is like i play perfectly with good reads etc

and sometimes like this game i just go to pieces and cant get reads or timing tells and i hardly ever catch a pair when i desperately need to as they call all my bets
so I will try to get my reads right and not make idiotic moves in future

Thanks for your review
I am sure it will help me
regards

blsmur

this me playing better i think
after doing Blazings review

i still got some games quite wrong and then i settled in and played better overall
i am willing to bet i made mistakes
but hopefully not as many

Click to download file

if anyone cares to look at it
any offer or ideas are welcome

ChrisB

3Bet sizing definitely try to keep it around 3-4x particularly in the very low blinds levels (like 10-20)

Stop worrying about that they might fold, players will occasionally hold air that did not connect at all. We need to extract value the times they do have something, and not try to keep them in above all.

Like the AK hand, you limp...why? It's a premium hand, which plays very well in raised pots, why only limp and "maybe" win a 40 chip pot, or lose when he paired his T2o?

In essence you need to valuebet when you are ahead and fold when he is doing the same, like Blazing said that's exactly the aim of poker. If you make one better valuebet than he does, but folds to his then you have gained a lot Smile

blsmur

well even for all my bad play
i made it Fulltilt's leaderboard 256 in the low limit husng

woo hoo

U Cook Socks

I really don't have time to go through this today, as Sunday is a busy day for me. Had a quick glance, just one hand to pick out.

Hand 21 107o

Why did you limp and check it down with no showdown value? Just stab and take it down a tonne of the time. That is what Brokers course teaches you to do. You can't play the limp style if you are going to check down when you have nothing. In fact you can't win at Heads Up poker at all if you just check down when you have air all the time. Especially in position.

NinjaReads

Brokerstar

WOW that's nice to have a detailed game review from Blazing there and there is a ton of great advice in there for you to learn from. Very Happy

Good job mate.

Broker

U Cook Socks

NinjaReads

[quote="Blazing_Saddler:26503"]

U Cook Socks

It's good to get in to good habits, and limping with trash hands, then checking it down with no showdown value is bad against any player at all. It's just pointless. Just stab every single flop v this player, cos as you said he was folding everytime.

In fact min raising every button and betting half pot on the flop would have been far more optimal v this player.

There was a couple of pretty big mistakes I spotted by just clicking through. One was with 66, when he limp raised, then bet half pot on a J93 board with a flush draw on it. Expect to get shoved on so much there. Just min raise pre flop. If you absolutely have to limp re raise, then limp/shove. You don't want to see a flop in a big pot with stack sizes as they are with 66.

As well as limping with trash, and not betting, he limped K5s and bet 3/4 of pot bet on a 3810 two tone board. Betting is still fine, but not so big, and it makes no sense when checking down low card hands with no showdown value.

same a few hands later K8s on a 922 Board, betting 20 is fine, no need to bet 60, he is only continuing there if you are beat.

Folded hands like 67o and q9o earlier in the match to a min raise, I got no problem with that really, but then called with 58o when the stacks were shallower.

The J3 hand you mentioned was one of the hands he played really well, min raise and bet just over half pot on the flop, and yep, the guy folded, which he would have been doing all the game.

KQ hand were he 3 bet, I know we said to make 3 bets bigger, but I think given the stack sizes, this is really bad, because if he shoves we are in a really sticky situation, and if he flats, you are going to be in a very arkward spot on a whiffed flop, cos the other guy is going to have not many more chips than the pot left. Just need to do a bit of thinking ahead about what you are trying to achieve from your bets really. I prefer just a flat at this stage with KQ, given that the other guy is relatively easy to navigate post flop.

Was there quite a few misclicks in there, cos you raised J3o, which I have no problem with v this player, but then you open folded K3s, just seems odd.

In general I have a problem seeing what you are trying to do in a lot of spots, your play seems very random, with little thought behind it.

I guess your getting pretty fed up of me right now, please don't. I have taken time out of my day to do this for you, I am just trying to give you some pointers to fix things.

NinjaReads

You're spot on with the analysis Blazing, I very much doubt he will be fed up with that advice.

Yeah, just looking at that KQ more than 3x reraise, no need to be doing stuff like given the dynamics. Flat, watch him check then stab or watch him bet then fold if whiffed. Next hand.

A bit of a rush of blood with the 66s. Aussie, did you limp wanting to reraise if he raised or did you just panic? You're suddenly sitting there with a 540 pot holding that pair on a very drawy board with villain sat with 600 chips left. You got away with both hands because he was so passive post flop.

But he was a -10% roi passive fit or fold player, surely you don't need advice how to play those games.

ChrisB

lol fml

I recorded a video review of the HH because Blazing said he wouldn't go through it....then I finish and see that Blazing touched on all my main points anyway Razz

It's gonna be up in like 15 minutes, I'm gonna link it up here anyway.

U Cook Socks

U Cook Socks

Missed one too, K5, and the flop is A10x you min raised pre flop, and didn't bet the flop, I would have, but I guess checking behind isn't that bad really. Then you hit a 5 on the turn and bet pot ! What you gonna do if he shoves on you ?
It's really bad play, just bet half pot on the flop and the hand is over most times, if he raises you , you fold, if he calls, then you can check the 5 behind on the turn.

I'll leave Chris to do his magic.

ChrisB

http://www.viddler.com/explore/ChrisB/videos/10/

U Cook Socks

Just watched the review.

Very good indeed, not much I can add to it really.

The 66 hand, I think limp shoving 66 is a perfectly fine play versus an aggressive player who punishes limps, and has a fold button, maybe when the effective stacks are slightly smaller than they were. But I mean limp raising those sizes, with those stacks is just about the worst option of all , for the reasons you mentioned. Just to add, once he had done this, if the other guy shoves, I am snap calling, you can't fold with how many chips were left behind imo.
The main point is, there is absolutely no need to play this way versus this player,or 99.9% of other micro stakes players, just min raise pre flop, makes it so much easier.

The main leak is limping and checking down nothing hands, it's just -EV, you can't play poker just to hit the flop, in HU even more so, no one ever has anything, so bet and take it down. Stab turns out of position v these kind of players that show no interest in pots, and definitely fold without a hand when they start betting.

As you said, some work needed to be done on preflop ranges, it is the most simple thing to do really. Alot of the play just seemed totally random.

I agree with what Chris said too, I'm not saying these things to make you feel stupid, I have made the same mistakes. I had a few bollockings off BrokerStar for checking down hands with no showdown value , when I was in the Top Team. We all have to start somewhere. I haven't given up probably the best part of an hour and a half on this thread to make you feel silly, or to make me feel good. I really just wanted to give you something to work with, to help you improve. Like a lot of other people though, if you don't listen to what people are telling you, and work on improving, if you do the same things, you will get the same results.

Good Luck. Nice Job Chris.

blsmur

U Cook Socks

blsmur

[quote="NinjaReads:26506"]

blsmur

blsmur

"Blazing_Saddler:26509"]It's good to get in to good habits, and limping with trash hands, then checking it down with no showdown value is bad against any player at all. It's just pointless. Just stab every single flop v this player, cos as you said he was folding everytime.

In fact min raising every button and betting half pot on the flop would have been far more optimal v this player.

I have to agree and in fact before i did Brokerstars course i was more inclined to play like that , however I came here to learn what it is that make Brokerstar and his disciples so successful ie the published graphs
my HU play prior to doing this course was only in final tables of tournaments and from 9 man sng in these type of games hu play is mostly a push fold game with occasional flops being played , So as you can see these game were a whole new ball game to me

I am loving the commentary of my games from everyone that has had some input
my post flop game has always been weak because i play mostly tournaments and sng,s very little cash until i joined DRAG the Bar last september and now here so for 4 years that is all i have played I have read books ,but I think this game review is the most positive results I am having

There was a couple of pretty big mistakes I spotted by just clicking through. One was with 66, when he limp raised, then bet half pot on a J93 board with a flush draw on it. Expect to get shoved on so much there. Just min raise pre flop. If you absolutely have to limp re raise, then limp/shove. You don't want to see a flop in a big pot with stack sizes as they are with 66.

with this hand i did the 3 bet to 270 expecting him to fold
but he calls ,as he chcks flop I think a CB is correct "quote Broker if we 3bet or raise preflop we should cbet " as he cks i think he either has missed or is holding a big hand so a half pot bet was about the right size to bet and fold if he shoves
Perhaps a better player would have shoved there with no hand ? As it stand, if he shove we both have 1500 chips again

As well as limping with trash, and not betting, he limped K5s and bet 3/4 of pot bet on a 3810 two tone board. Betting is still fine, but not so big, and it makes no sense when checking down low card hands with no showdown value.

ok I take this onboard now i mix it between raising and limping preflop on btn and if i limp pre then i cbet flop ,unless opponent Donks into me then i have to make a decision or fold junk

same a few hands later K8s on a 922 Board, betting 20 is fine, no need to bet 60, he is only continuing there if you are beat.

Folded hands like 67o and q9o earlier in the match to a min raise, I got no problem with that really, but then called with 58o when the stacks were shallower.

The J3 hand you mentioned was one of the hands he played really well, min raise and bet just over half pot on the flop, and yep, the guy folded, which he would have been doing all the game.

KQ hand were he 3 bet, I know we said to make 3 bets bigger, but I think given the stack sizes, this is really bad, because if he shoves we are in a really sticky situation, and if he flats, you are going to be in a very arkward spot on a whiffed flop, cos the other guy is going to have not many more chips than the pot left. Just need to do a bit of thinking ahead about what you are trying to achieve from your bets really. I prefer just a flat at this stage with KQ, given that the other guy is relatively easy to navigate post flop.

If he shoves What is correct ? fold or call kq? in the past for me was always a fold in this situation , but after the big argument i was left thinking KQ is suitable as ALL in hand , my gut tells me I should fold as opposed to gamble nearly all of my chips , i think this guy was pretty tight and he would fold most hands to my 3 bet

Was there quite a few misclicks in there, cos you raised J3o, which I have no problem with v this player, but then you open folded K3s, just seems odd.

my misclicks after looking through this game again i think my missclicks were more just incorrect play
i will make sure in future i am either limping or betting from the btn unless he punish my limps and 3 bets a lot

In general I have a problem seeing what you are trying to do in a lot of spots, your play seems very random, with little thought behind it.

I guess your getting pretty fed up of me right now, please don't. I have taken time out of my day to do this for you, I am just trying to give you some pointers to fix things

I have nothing to be fed up about

thankyou for your comments they are helping me

blsmur

blsmur · reply part 2

blsmur

OH YES

THIS IS MUCH BETTER

even when i lose a race I just get back and do it allover

i will report when i get another 100 games done

NinjaReads

ChrisB

blsmur

I have been through every hand history of my games since the reviews

this guy was definitely putting me to the test and I failed
it is a short game of 8 minutes and every time i tried to do something he was on it

there are 3 other games where i raised preflop and post flop and gave em hell

however i think they adjusted and i didnt

Also I think when i play this more aggressive style of play I forget they can have a hand

anyway this one he either got very lucky with hitting hands or he outplayed me completely

Click to download file

if you decide to review it that would be great or if you just pick out the odd hand that I
got really wrong that would be fine too

thanks Ron

ScootNM

I don't really have a detailed hand-by-hand analysis, but since I play low stakes; figured I'd throw in my 2 cents.

1. I know this was a reg speed game, I normally play turbo and this seemed to play out more like a turbo match. Seems like there may have been some opportunities to learn more about your opponent.

2. Personally, if I know my opponent is not afraid to play some poker post-flop; I would tighten up what I call out of position. I think there was a couple hands I would have folded that you called from the BB.

3. I feel like you kinda gave up and reduced the match to a coin flip. You made a good comeback with the two pair, but I don't like the last hand. Your raise seems a bit low considering you have to play out of position, but I guess that's not a big deal. I think...maybe in hindsight...I check the flop, with the intention to call or raise....I think it's a good way to get a card for cheap in that situation. Especially since he's shown he's not afraid to go over the top when you do lead out.

At the turn, I'm definitely folding to his bet. Fight another battle. I don't think there is any chance your all-in is going to throw him off the hand, not at the low stakes at least and you would still have about 25BB.

I'm still a newbie myself, so my feedback is just my perspective. I don't think you made any horrible mistakes, but, in general, I'm finding at these stakes...it's more profitable to allow your opponent to make mistakes.

Hope it helps...

blsmur

ScootNM

Hmmm, you may have had 12 outs, but maybe not....not sure; I guess I'm not really thinking about pot odds here.

My two other newbie comments weren't about specific hands. IMO, play tighter OOP if you are facing an aggressive post-flop player and try to learn about your opponents for cheap.

G'luck

Scott

blsmur

I Have a a few fairly tough (for me ) games since you last made a comment

and i have finally found the fold button in that situation

and even the 66 type hand like in that last game I have slowed down and waited to see what happens and if i make my set , this has helped tremendously and i have won against the last 2 LAGs

I can now check the river when they very agg and I think I am best ,hoping for a shove or bet to call

In the past when i thought i was good i would check call river bet but if I had the nuts I was betting big on river and they would fold , So I have finally got that bit figured out however it took some control not to bet and a couple of the hands i check he just ck behind
I guess he not calling a bet anyway then

So I have broken some new ground for me in the battle of husng
]
I have played 6 games today and won 5
I will play some more

thanks again to everyone that has been helping

I dont know why it has taken me so long to catch hold of some of these concepts
but hopefully they will stay now i got em

blsmur

Well it a week since I started this thread

and my results are GREAT

I am sure my game is not perfect BUt it is profitable now not just sitting around going no where like I was

My post flop game has improved and the account balance is showing in the results
just thought you guys would like to know

when i get to my 100 games I will post my results

Thanks very much to everyone that has contributed to this thread so far

blsmur · 100 GAMES ON

well i have played 100 or so more games and here is my latest graph

I think
i have got it now
[img]

Click to see full size image
[/img]

I know I am not playing pert Poker but certainly changed and stating to profit with it

Also my Cash games have improved too
eg hu and 6 max and full ring

i am probably playing post flop better in tournaments too

so thanks to everyone that lent that helping hand a few weeks ago
Ron

ChrisB

Excellent

forced

good job!

blsmur

I just watch this again
think i have been falling back a bit

however i just had a run of 8 wins followed by 3 losses 2 wins and a loss

so i decided i should re watch this I have had a hard time increasing my BR
but another $10 and i will move up to next level

blsmur

is this just VARIANCE OR ME

reply part 2

100 GAMES ON