| Archive for Tagpoker Forum A friendly place for winning poker players to share their strategy to making money playing poker. |
| dzikijohnny |
Folding top pair top kicker to tight passives check raiseDom has said that this is the right move if you get check raised by a tight passive and now I believe him. Of course, I am a much better player now I know how to hit my backdoor straights. But, I actually thought before doing it that Dom says I should fold now but, didn't. I am developing delayed intelligence. I recognize what the wrong move is right after I do it.Full Tilt, $10 + $0.50 NL Hold'em Tournament, 25/50 Blinds, 2 Players [URL="http://www.leggopoker.com"]LeggoPoker.com[/URL] - [URL="http://www.leggopoker.com/converter"]Hand History Converter[/URL] BB: 2,545 Hero (BTN): 3,455 Pre-Flop: (75) A  Q dealt to Hero (BTN)
Hero raises to 100, BB calls 50 Flop: (200) 6 Q T (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets 125, BB raises to 300, Hero raises to 1,100, BB raises to 2,445 and is All-In, Hero calls 1,345 Turn: (5,090) K (2 Players - 1 is All-In)
River: (5,090) J  (2 Players - 1 is All-In)
Results: 5,090 Pot BB showed 6 6 and LOST (-2,495 NET)
Hero showed A Q and WON 5,090 (+2,570 NET)
|
||||||||
| BetMagicMoney |
yep TopP VS a TP C R = easy fold
also i soooooooooo agree with the "delayed intelligence" i always do stuff in game and then go, that was wrong 
|
||||||||
| U Cook Socks |
Raising all in is pretty bad there tbh if your read is he is tight passive.
However, I dunno about folding, I still call and evaluate turn,but then again, I am a station. |
||||||||
| sausage |
Actually a very interesting spot.
I think that saying you should have folded is being results orientated here. I would have to have a very strong read that villain would pretty much never CR without a better hand than us to find a fold on this board. Bear in mind also that with the As in your hand you will often pick up more equity on the turn. I would be interested to hear what others think about this spot. |
||||||||
| YATHINNK |
Yeah, although its fair to say a stereotypical TP would raise here I don't think it's right to fold.
I think stacking off might be a bad option but I think over time folding is a lot worse. He could easily do it with KQ type hands. I do for the flat and then evaluate the turn, I'd say that was definitely your best option. |
||||||||
| butitwassooted |
Given player profile, this is quite the easy fold, its not like they C/R less then bottom 2P, let alone draws.
And yes, we may very well pick up more EQ on T, but would still get it in with +- 30% best case, and forget about foldEQ. ''Call to reevaluate'' means C/F any T, or getting it in bad. But R bigger pre, and B/F alot larger on F please. Also, why do you post every hand in strategy forum? |
||||||||
| dzikijohnny |
Sausage: I did have a very strong read on his player type and that made me think that a fold was the best play. Brokerstar talks about it in course and I wish I had. My read was right, I was crushed and I luckboxed a win.
butit...because no one else does. I try to only post ones that I think are interesting/illustrative of larger strategy/tactical concepts. In this case it shows it shows how hand strength matters less than than who you are playing and the reads you have. Here vs a tp tptk to a cr is a fold. But here is a different case. Just played this guy 2 games before. This guy is a LAG who I think I got some great reads on. He bluffs big and he slow plays his monsters. So his small bets are scary and big are weak. And I had misplayed vs him several times with bluffs. Because of that my read was that he would never bet big with a big hand. He flopped a full house with J7o in possition and only bet on river and then half pot when a flush card came. So moral of story...vs one player type tptk is crap and vs another any pair is the nuts. Full Tilt, $10 + $0.50 NL Hold'em Tournament, 25/50 Blinds, 2 Players [URL="http://www.leggopoker.com"]LeggoPoker.com[/URL] - [URL="http://www.leggopoker.com/converter"]Hand History Converter[/URL] BB: 3,430 Hero (BTN): 2,570 Pre-Flop: (75) 9 J dealt to Hero (BTN)
Hero raises to 125, BB calls 75 Flop: (250) 9 3 3 (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets 200, BB calls 200 Turn: (650) 8 (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets 375, BB raises to 750, Hero calls 375 River: (2,150) 6 (2 Players)
BB bets 2,355 and is All-In, Hero calls 1,495 and is All-In Results: 5,140 Pot BB showed Q T and LOST (-2,520 NET)
Hero showed 9 J and WON 5,140 (+2,595 NET)
|
||||||||
| ottocat01 |
Please don't fold to the initial check-raise. | ||||||||
| dzikijohnny |
As tight and passively as this guy was playing it was a fold. | ||||||||
| U Cook Socks |
Do you think he flat calls with KQ on that board ? If so, then possibly it is a fold, but I'm not folding that flop, that deep, with that hand. Ok if he puts a big bet in on the turn, then maybe it's time to let it go, but if he really is that passive, he might just as easily check the turn. It's just super exploitable folding the flop there. |
||||||||
| dzikijohnny |
Folding probably is. Wish I could post the whole hand history. Vs this guy it was an easy read that top pair was a weak holding. I posted this hand to reinforce what Dom has said about being willing to fold top pair vs certain player types when they checkraise. He's right. | ||||||||
| Polycarpus |
Why raise bigger pre? Againsta TP, 2x seems absolutely perfect. Why bet bigger on the flop? If we bet small and we're ahead, we want to be called. If we bet small and we're behind, we lose less if he c/r. Cbetting more than 125 in a 200 pot against a TAP opponent does not make a lot of sence to me tbh. |
||||||||
| butitwassooted |
Because these guys are experts at hemorrhaging dead money. We want that dead money. By MR, you are basically doing exactly what he wants you to do: see the F on the cheap, and try to hit it. Dont make it so easy on him.
We are so far ahead compared to his F calling range, so there is much value to be had from worse. So we make more money the vast majority of the time, and losing more the couple times we are beat. If his calling range crushed our hand, then we would be bluffing. Plus you don't want to give someone correct direct odds to draw. |
||||||||
| Polycarpus |
If he is tight-passive, he folds too often, and only calls when he has a hand (or 3bets when he has a monster). So we want to maximise the number of hands he folds (by raising ATC), but minimise the amount we invest, because when he calls or 3bets, we're likely to be behind. So I stick with MR ATC as perfect strategy here.
You would be correct if he was LAP, but he is TAP. So we are not so far ahead compared to his F calling range. |