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Irkininvader

Establishing an image early

I have started to notice that whenever I run good at the start of a match and start raising big / 3 betting / reraising, my opponents appear to get easily frustrated.  This results in them calling down quite light, making it easy for me to cash in on my good hands later on, throughout the match (I tend to play quite a straightforward style with very few big bluffs).  

 Is this something that other players have noticed too?  I am only at the $5 level currently so it could just be a result of the generally weak player field. Is this something I should be experimenting with, looking for spots early to 3bet or check raise lighter, maybe as a bluff?

 Anyone else try to employ this strategy?  Is it worth trying? Is it something that could continue to be profitable at higher stakes?
JamEaze

I believe that in the long run that isnt a viable strategy, our winnings will come from exploiting our opponents styles more effectively.

At that level I dont expect any of our opponents to even know what table image means, so trying to establish one is kinda counter productive.

The main problem with this strategy is that if you try a light 3bet or check raise early on without knowing how tight your opponent is, we can very quickly find ourselves facing a 2-1 chip deficit
U Cook Socks

JamEaze wrote:
I believe that in the long run that isnt a viable strategy, our winnings will come from exploiting our opponents styles more effectively.

At that level I dont expect any of our opponents to even know what table image means, so trying to establish one is kinda counter productive.

The main problem with this strategy is that if you try a light 3bet or check raise early on without knowing how tight your opponent is, we can very quickly find ourselves facing a 2-1 chip deficit


I don't agree with that. They may not know what table image is, but they fall in to the trap without even knowing it.

You are right, that we do win money from exploiting oppenents, that is 100% correct, but you can make them even more exploitable by what you do during the game.

I must point out, I don't mean go out there playing like a maniac, pick your spots wisely. You can indeed crush the lower stakes without really having to do anything other than playing ABC poker, but if you want to play higher up, you are going to be playing far more aggressive players, you will just get run over.
JamEaze

Blazing_Saddler wrote:
JamEaze wrote:
I believe that in the long run that isnt a viable strategy, our winnings will come from exploiting our opponents styles more effectively.

At that level I dont expect any of our opponents to even know what table image means, so trying to establish one is kinda counter productive.

The main problem with this strategy is that if you try a light 3bet or check raise early on without knowing how tight your opponent is, we can very quickly find ourselves facing a 2-1 chip deficit


I don't agree with that. They may not know what table image is, but they fall in to the trap without even knowing it.

You are right, that we do win money from exploiting oppenents, that is 100% correct, but you can make them even more exploitable by what you do during the game.

I must point out, I don't mean go out there playing like a maniac, pick your spots wisely. You can indeed crush the lower stakes without really having to do anything other than playing ABC poker, but if you want to play higher up, you are going to be playing far more aggressive players, you will just get run over.


I was hoping one of the more experienced guys would come in here as I was really pondering when I replied to OP... so thanks Blazing.

In terms of establishing that image, how do we manage that against someone who is only potentially falling into that trap without knowing it (i.e. subconciously)?
U Cook Socks

JamEaze wrote:
Blazing_Saddler wrote:
JamEaze wrote:
I believe that in the long run that isnt a viable strategy, our winnings will come from exploiting our opponents styles more effectively.

At that level I dont expect any of our opponents to even know what table image means, so trying to establish one is kinda counter productive.

The main problem with this strategy is that if you try a light 3bet or check raise early on without knowing how tight your opponent is, we can very quickly find ourselves facing a 2-1 chip deficit


I don't agree with that. They may not know what table image is, but they fall in to the trap without even knowing it.

You are right, that we do win money from exploiting oppenents, that is 100% correct, but you can make them even more exploitable by what you do during the game.

I must point out, I don't mean go out there playing like a maniac, pick your spots wisely. You can indeed crush the lower stakes without really having to do anything other than playing ABC poker, but if you want to play higher up, you are going to be playing far more aggressive players, you will just get run over.


I was hoping one of the more experienced guys would come in here as I was really pondering when I replied to OP... so thanks Blazing.

In terms of establishing that image, how do we manage that against someone who is only potentially falling into that trap without knowing it (i.e. subconciously)?


mmm, there is a fine line between creating an aggressive image, and just spewing. I mean against a station, don't waste your time, just value bet them, and play your hands for value.

If you just 3 bet your value hands, it's pretty easy to work that out for anyone of average intelligence (I realise that a lot of people playing poker don't have that  Very Happy )

If you pop in light 3 bets, in selected spots, then all of a sudden they start to notice you are getting a bit out of line. If you 3 bet them and they have to fold a few times, then they are just waiting for a chance to spew off. I'll post a hand below I played this morning v a winning reg, he seems to sit me quite often, but I just totally own him, it is costing him a fortune.

I had 3 bet him quite a bit, I had picked up a few hands as it happened, and popped in 2 light 3 bets, he folded them all, I know he folds 3 bets light, but has a tendancy to get frustrated and spazz out. He did it last week when he spazzed out and 4 bet all in with A8o.

Then this


Poker Stars, $30 + $1.50 NL Hold'em Tournament, 10/20 Blinds, 2 Players
[URL="http://www.leggopoker.com"]LeggoPoker.com[/URL] - [URL="http://www.leggopoker.com/converter"]Hand History Converter[/URL]

BTN: 1,335
Hero (BB): 1,665

Pre-Flop: (30) T T dealt to Hero (BB)
BTN raises to 60, Hero raises to 165, BTN raises to 1,325 and is All-In, Hero calls 1,170

Flop: (2,670) Q 4 A (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Turn: (2,670) 9 (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: (2,670) Q (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: 2,670 Pot
BTN showed 7 4 and LOST (-1,325 NET)
Hero showed T T and WON 2,670 (+1,355 NET)

now I am assuming had I not 3 bet him so much previously, he would have just folded this hand. Everyone only has so many folds in them, before they do something daft.

It doesn't have to be pre flop either, you can manipulate players in many ways, but you have to choose the right moves, on different player types.
icemanv6

Good post blazing. Being a mid-high stakes $80-100 player myself i can confirm the opponent are indeed aggressive for the main part. I find that the same as blazing if you pick up hands and 3bet like 2 or 3 times at the beginning you get little credit after so they will call lighter jam light. It is easy to tell when to tighten up as the majority of the players if there down even by 200 chips or can't get a lead they will start calling wider later on when they have been tighter early on. Again its just about making adjustments to deal with this throughout the game. I might make a few videos tonight and upload one to show this.
rekop

Hope Im not misrepresenting Broker here but in one of his vids he said that early on (or at least when the blinds are low) he would 3-bet light to gauge the response. This is because the first one or two times you get respect for a hand - and so you can guage the villain's response.
The next time he will have a hand.
It also establises that he can 3-bet and can then increase his frequency against passive or tight players later on when the blinds are significant.
ChrisB

By raising every button you are creating an image. By c-betting every flop you create an image and the list goes on.
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