Archive for Tagpoker Forum A friendly place for winning poker players to share their strategy to making money playing poker.
 


       Tagpoker Forum Forum Index -> Tagpoker Lounge
forced

cruising 2p2 BMM

are you becoming a legend?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com...ontcall-vs-betmagicmoney-1132673/
BetMagicMoney

yer its coz im awesome (at everything except poker Razz )
forced

lol... was'nt sure if it was you or not, or even what is going on there...
two2go

Can you explain what this is?
sausage

We should do this on here.

Could be fun & educational.

I will deal or play.

Just need 2 more.
sausage

Looking forward to seeing whether BMM butchers the hand or the English language most in the 2+2 thread  Very Happy

My money is on the language fwiw
U Cook Socks

sausage wrote:
We should do this on here.

Could be fun & educational.

I will deal or play.

Just need 2 more.


Might help if someone explained how it worked
sausage

Components

- 1 dealer

- 2 players.


Rules

- Players post their reasoning for the hands in a spoiler and their actions outside it, they can't look at the other player spoilers.

- Observers can comment using spoilers, players can't read it till after the game.

- Dealers can be subbed at any time. Players are expected to play trough or concede/draw.

- No angle-shooting.


Optional rules

- Use of tools forbidden.


Essentially a dealer deals hole cards & flop, turn & river which are all spoilered and players act not spoilered but post their reasoning in a spoiler.

Sounds more complicated than it is.
BetMagicMoney

exactually as above, i'll be happy to play another game on here Smile
forced

cool... someone start one... Im interested.
kierkegaard1

i'll play. hopefully it wont be butchered like it seems to be on 2p2. one dealer, one game
BetMagicMoney

ok sausage Vs kierk

i'll deal, are we ready to go?
chesslw

lol you don't need to ask "ready?" in this game. Just deal bmm.
sausage

Shuffle up and deal BMM. 10/20 blinds 500 stack?
forced

seems to me this is potentially an excellent learning tool. To be able to follow the thought process of a player like kierkegaard (and others) is awesome!

dont hold back guys!! Smile
sausage

Seems like the dealer is on strike.
U Cook Socks

sausage wrote:
Seems like the dealer is on strike.


Without sounding thick, if someone explains how I deal, then I will take over, if that is allowed. I am online quite a bit.
sausage

Draw holecards from this site http://www.random.org/playing-cards/

These need to go in a spoiler (this is the biggest issue don't know how to do this in the tagpoker forum).

Do the same with flop/turn/river also posted as spoilers.

Make a post showing stack sizes and blinds.

See this 2+2 thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com...s-up-sng/malkovich-husng-1131903/
U Cook Socks

sausage wrote:
Draw holecards from this site http://www.random.org/playing-cards/

These need to go in a spoiler (this is the biggest issue don't know how to do this in the tagpoker forum).

Do the same with flop/turn/river also posted as spoilers.

Make a post showing stack sizes and blinds.

See this 2+2 thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com...s-up-sng/malkovich-husng-1131903/


Okay, give me till tomorrow, and if BMM hasn't turned up up, I'll give it a go. If anyone knows how to do a spoiler on here, please let us know.
forced

[ spoiler ]  text  [/spoiler]

no spaces between bracket and word spoiler

Spoiler:

go!

BetMagicMoney

sorry guys been mad busy last few days (been grinding the live Razz )

Game #1
Hand #1 - t10/t20 Blinds
sausage (SB): t500
kierkegaard1 (BB): t500

Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

T:diamond: J:spade:


Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

8:heart: 4:diamond:



Pre Flop: t30
sausage is first to act
sausage

Sausage raises to 40

Spoiler:

 Pretty straightforward decision here. I have a hand which will play well post flop.  

sandman369

This is a neat idea, looking forward to the match with reasons for each step.
sausage

BMM - Do you want to deal flop, turn and river so we dont have to wait once pre flop actions are complete?
kierkegaard1

folds

Spoiler:

nothing to add

sausage

More cards please dealer.

Btw blinds up every 10 hands?
chesslw

Where has bmm gone? Anyway if he is busy then you can take what I 've got from random.org (i take 9 cards each time first 2 goes to sb, next 2 goes to bb then the rest is the board):

Game #1
Hand #2 - t10/t20 Blinds
kierkegaard1 (SB): t480
sausage (BB): t520
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

Qd 10c


Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

Kd 5c


flop:
Spoiler:

Qs 7d 10d


turn:
Spoiler:

7h


river:
Spoiler:

3h


Pre Flop: t30
Kierkegaard1 to act
sausage

Anyone can deal so yes let's use these cards.
chesslw

Well if stacksizes are wrong then you can correct it (but I don't see how it's wrong tbh- last hand kierk folded big blind to you- so your stack is 520, and his is 480?).

The main thing is I've dealt 9 random cards- and you can play from there.

And yeah you can say blinds increase every 10 hands (though it doesn't really matter this short tbh).
sausage

Edited the previous message, had a brainfart stack sizes are right.
BetMagicMoney

sorry guys, yes anyone can deal Razz Smile right in the middle of doing uni coursework so im crazy busy atm, i'll try and keep up with this is much as i can <3
kierkegaard1

raise to 45

Spoiler:

this raise size should throw off villains ranges a little

sausage

Sausage folds.

Comments to follow.

More cards please.
chesslw

Game #1
Hand #3 - t10/t20 Blinds
sausage (SB): t500
kierkegaard1 (BB): t500
Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

Jd 5h


Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

As 10c


flop:
Spoiler:

Jh 6c 3d


turn:
Spoiler:

Qh


river:
Spoiler:

5s


Pre Flop: t30
sausage to act
BetMagicMoney

kierkegaard1 wrote:
raise to 45

Spoiler:

this raise size should throw off villains ranges a little



Spoiler:

This interests me, what do people think about making it 45? will this make any real difference Vs making it 40??

chesslw

BetMagicMoney wrote:
kierkegaard1 wrote:
raise to 45

Spoiler:

this raise size should throw off villains ranges a little



Spoiler:

This interests me, what do people think about making it 45? will this make any real difference Vs making it 40??



Spoiler:

Idk but apparently R-Q and H2Olga both raise to t45 at 23-25bb. I've thought about it- and I think it just sets up stacks better to increase the EV for sb:

Say both are at t500, and bb flats pre. Then pot is 90 whilst both are at t455. Then if the cbet of 45 is called both will have 410, pot is 180. Then a turn bet of say 110 sets up a perfect river shove if called as pot is 400 and the shove is 300. This puts maximum pressure on the bb making him "indifferent" to calling/folding on all streets in an ideal, optimal game (or something like that). If you minraise, in order to get stacks in one of the streets postflop will involve a biggish bet than normal, and it doesn't "feel" optimal to me...

Of course the problem with this is it increased the EV of bb's 3bet jamming preflop- but if you call perfectly, a 3bet jam/fold strategy for the bb is still exploitable with 5 more chips of dead money pre, at least with stacks greater than 23bbish.

Tbh you may just ignore what I just said as it might be complete rubbish- I think the main reason ppl raise to t45 is that most players don't adapt their ranges well vs this raise size as it is uncommon.

sausage

Hand 2

Spoiler:

I am going to have to check fold so many flops if I call here as I am clearly going to hit the flop hard very rarely & I expect Kierk to cbet 80-85% of the time

sausage

Hand 3:

Sausage folds

Spoiler:

 Obviously tempting to raise here, but I have a weak unconnected hand & given that both previous hands have been folded preflop I think there is a fairly high probability that Kierk will play back either preflop or on the flop  

chesslw

Game #1
Hand #4 - t10/t20 Blinds
kierkegaard1 (SB): t510
sausage (BB): t490
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

6c Js


Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

4h 2c


flop:
Spoiler:

2s 10h 7c


turn:
Spoiler:

4d


river:
Spoiler:

5s


Pre Flop: t30
kierkegaard1 to act
kierkegaard1

raise to 45

Spoiler:

as before

sausage

Sausage folds
chesslw

Game #1
Hand #5 - t10/t20 Blinds
sausage (SB): t470
kierkegaard1 (BB): t530
Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

Qc 9c


Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

3d 9d


flop:
Spoiler:

6s 5c 7h


turn:
Spoiler:

9h


river:
Spoiler:

5s


Pre Flop: t30
sausage to act
sausage

Sausage raises to 40

Spoiler:

 Pretty hand. Interesting spot if he 3 bets here  

U Cook Socks

edited.
sausage

I am a fish at posting spoilers  Very Happy
U Cook Socks

I'd be no good playing this anyway, I'd definitely cheat.
forced

Blazing_Saddler wrote:
I'd be no good playing this anyway, I'd definitely cheat.


lol... it would be pretty hard not too.. I think I could  though..
kierkegaard1

folds

Spoiler:

bad hand, and not a hand in my 3b bluff range

chesslw

Game #1
Hand #6 - t10/t20 Blinds
kierkegaard1 (SB): t510
sausage (BB): t490
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

10s 7d


Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

10c Qd


flop:
Spoiler:

Ah 4h Ac


turn:
Spoiler:

7h


river:
Spoiler:

Kc


Pre Flop: t30
kierkegaard1 to act
kierkegaard1

raise to 40

Spoiler:

i think this raise size should strengthen my range. as if im looking for action after the 2 last folds

chesslw

kierkegaard1 wrote:
raise to 40

Spoiler:

i think this raise size should strengthen my range. as if im looking for action after the 2 last folds



Spoiler:

What's the general population tendencies are regarding raise sizing? There is an argument that can be made for betting bigger to bluff and smaller to get action, but also another logical argument for betting bigger with better hands. Readless in a superturbo would you raise to t45 or t40 first hand with either AA or 57o? And what would you expect the average villain does?

And for reacting to different raise sizes, should we just try to be unexploitable readless?

For example- if you face a 3x first hand in a superturbo, will you have a flatting range or a 3bet bluffjam range at all? Because if not, then you will be highly exploited by the "exploitable" 3x from the button 25bb deep.

sausage

Sausage calls

Spoiler:

 Playable hand that can make good top pair hands. No reason to tuirn it into a bluff by 3 betting  

BetMagicMoney

@chesslw
Spoiler:

personally i like to keep my raise sizing the same, how ever if im to mix it up for say my first hand and i want to get value, i go bigger as i assume people will still call you wide as they might think your a fish etc

chesslw

sausage wrote:
Sausage calls

Spoiler:

 Playable hand that can make good top pair hands. No reason to tuirn it into a bluff by 3 betting  



Stop angleshooting sausage :p you're to act as flop is dealt.
sausage

Oops confused due to lack of flops  Embarassed
sausage

Sausage checks

Spoiler:

 If I lead here it looks like an air bluff or a weak pair so am likely to get played back at a ton. Still ahead of Kierk's raise, cbet range so likely to call a flop bet depending on his sizing  

kierkegaard1

bet 35

Spoiler:

betting smaller as i feel it strengthens my range and sets up stack sizes to triple off here in a spot where an A is def in my perceived range and v hard for sausage to have one

sausage

Sausage calls

Spoiler:

 I expect Kierk to bet 100% of his range on this board so we are ahead of his range and call as planned.  

sausage

Sausage checks
sausage

Spoiler:

Not the best turn given we don't have a heart in our hand. The plan was to check call again, but we may have to check fold now as we are going to be lost on the river if we check call.  

sausage

Spoiler:

Would be interested to see some thoughts on this hand once the match is finished.

Going to add a huge spoiler to bluff Kierk into letting me get to showdown for free    


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx#

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

BetMagicMoney

sausage wrote:
Spoiler:

Would be interested to see some thoughts on this hand once the match is finished.

Going to add a huge spoiler to bluff Kierk into letting me get to showdown for free    


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx#

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Spoiler:

so let me add to this level





f

f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f

ff
f
fuuuuuuuuuuu Razz <3

kierkegaard1

bet 95

Spoiler:

pretty interesting turn. i expect to have been called w/K or Q hi a bunch on this flop. barrelling to avoid giving free equity to turned flush draws. was prepared to barrell off 3 streets until this turns.

sausage

Sausage folds

Spoiler:

 Not much I can do when he barrels this turn.  

BetMagicMoney

Next hand Very Happy
Game #1
Hand #6 - t10/t20 Blinds
kierkegaard1 (SB): t585
sausage (BB): t415
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

Kh Tc


Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

Js 2s


flop:
Spoiler:

Ah As 2c


turn:
Spoiler:

Kc


river:
Spoiler:

5d


Pre Flop: t30
sausage to act
sausage

Sausage raises to 40

Spoiler:

 Sooted cards in position Very Happy

kierkegaard1

raise to 85

Spoiler:

he can call with a bunch of stuff i dominate. too deep to jam, planning to sigh call if i get 4b jammed on

sausage

Sausage folds

Spoiler:

 Not entirely surprised to get 3b here. Stacks are deep enough that a shove is going to be profitable with a hand that will still have reasonable equity if called e.g. QJs etc. but J2s is going to be in horrible shape if we got callled. He is cbetting too often (maybe 85-90% of the time?) that I don't think that we can call this small 3b even in position.

We are looking really nitty at this stage of the match so need to bear our image in mind. Unfortunately we are pretty shallow now so its going to be a little difficult to make any moves.  

BetMagicMoney

Next hand Razz
Game #1
Hand #8 - t10/t20 Blinds
kierkegaard1 (SB): t625 E:31
sausage (BB): t375 E:19
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

Jd 8c


Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

Td 4d


flop:
Spoiler:

Ac 6h 5s


turn:
Spoiler:

4s


river:
Spoiler:

9d


Pre Flop: t30
kierkegaard1 to act
chesslw

BetMagicMoney wrote:
Next hand Razz
Game #1
Hand #8 - t10/t20 Blinds
kierkegaard1 (SB): t625 E:31
sausage (BB): t375 E:19
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

Jd 8c


Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

Td 4d


flop:
Spoiler:

Ac 6h 5s


turn:
Spoiler:

4s


river:
Spoiler:

9d


Pre Flop: t30
kierkegaard1 to act


Spoiler:

sausage needs to run better

kierkegaard1

Raise to 40
BetMagicMoney

@chesslw
Spoiler:

i agree Razz

kierkegaard1

Spoiler:

a common mistake is to limp here or something in fear of getting shoved on and having to fold <20bb deep. i'd be raising close to 100% in this spot)

sausage

Sausage folds

Spoiler:

 Tempting to 3b here, but stack sizes are getting a little too shallow (obviously I wouldn't 3b to 120, but if I did I think I would be committed to calling it off. A 3b here would also look too much like a spite 3b. Expect Kierk to be opening really wide (at least 85%) so I would get a lot of folds, but still doubtful if a 3b here is +EV.  

BetMagicMoney

Game #1
Hand #9 - t10/t20 Blinds
kierkegaard1 (BB): t645 E:32
sausage (SB): t355 E:18
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

Qd 9s


Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

Jh 4c


flop:
Spoiler:

Kd 8h 5d


turn:
Spoiler:

Kc


river:
Spoiler:

3s


Pre Flop: t30
sausage to act
sausage

Sausage raises to 40
BetMagicMoney

sausage wrote:
Sausage raises to 40

your suppose to say y? Razz
kierkegaard1

i call

Spoiler:

hand plays well oop, dont want it to lose its value by shoving this deep

chesslw

flop comes... as above and kierkegaard1 is first to act.
kierkegaard1

check

Spoiler:

i missed

sausage

BetMagicMoney wrote:
sausage wrote:
Sausage raises to 40

your suppose to say y? Razz
i know & i will but on my mobile not pc so wanted to keep game going rather than keep everyone waiting
BetMagicMoney

np Smile
sausage

Probably not get chance to post any explanations or bets until tomorrow night.
sandman369

BetMagicMoney wrote:
sausage wrote:
Spoiler:

Would be interested to see some thoughts on this hand once the match is finished.

Going to add a huge spoiler to bluff Kierk into letting me get to showdown for free    


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx#

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Spoiler:

so let me add to this level





f

f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f
f

ff
f
fuuuuuuuuuuu Razz <3



Spoiler:

lol you fools, spoilers are always shrunk to minimum size before they're unspoiled Razz

sidenote: you guys are WAY smarter at pokerz than me Very Happy

sausage

Comments on PF raise

Spoiler:

 Don't expect to get 3b bluffed much at these stack sizes. Expect to get called by connected type hands QJ, T9 etc. Combination of PF folds & flop folds means I can raise with most of my range here.  

sausage

Sausage bets 40

Spoiler:

 Perfect board to cbet. No need to bet more than half pot & I think a bet of 30-35 looks too much like a cheap bet to take the pot down. Not impossible to get played back at here, but we have no reason not to bet because of that. Pretty unlikely that Kierk has a strong hand here as I expect him to 3b his decent Kings & pocket pairs PF  

BetMagicMoney

kierk to act Smile
kierkegaard1

folds

Spoiler:

i missed

chesslw

Someone deal? (I'm busy atm on internet)...
BetMagicMoney

Game #1
Hand #10 - t15/t30 Blinds
kierkegaard1 (BB): t605 E:20
sausage (SB): t395 E:13
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

Kc Js


Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

Td 4s


flop:
Spoiler:

3s 9d 9c


turn:
Spoiler:

2h


river:
Spoiler:

Jc


Pre Flop: t45
Blinds up - kierkegaard1 to act
kierkegaard1

raise to 60

Spoiler:

please ship it in sausage

sausage

Sausage folds

Spoiler:

 Easy decision with this hand  

BetMagicMoney

Game #1
Hand #11 - t15/t30 Blinds
kierkegaard1 (BB): t635 E:20
sausage (SB): t365 E:13
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

Jh Tc


Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

Th Td


flop:
Spoiler:

3d 6c 6h


turn:
Spoiler:

5c


river:
Spoiler:

8h


Pre Flop: t45
sausage to act
sandman369

Either you got the blinds or first to act wrong on hand #10, BB can't act first! Man your typos really are bad BMM Razz
sausage

Sausage raises to 60
kierkegaard1

all in

Spoiler:

still think i have some FE and when called im rarely in awful shape. too shallow to just flat

sausage

Sausage calls
sausage

Spoiler:

 Obviously a great spot to pick up a premium hand on our first button at this level. There are some villains who auto shove almost ATC vs a limp, but no reason to assume this here. If we had been shoving of folding a number of buttons then we may have been forced to shove as a minraise would be somewhat transparent, but as we don't have that dynamic I believe a minraise call is clearly the best line. I think Kierk will reshove any A, any pairs, decent Ks, connected high cards & some SCs.

Nothing to say about calling the shove obv.  

BetMagicMoney

and sausage holds next hand

Game #1
Hand #12 - t15/t30 Blinds
kierkegaard1 (SB): t270 E:9
sausage (BB): t730 E:24
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:

Ah As


Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:

Jd 5s


flop:
Spoiler:

3c 2d 8d


turn:
Spoiler:

8h


river:
Spoiler:

Kh


Pre Flop: t45
kierkegaard1 to act
BetMagicMoney

Spoiler:

pretty intrested to see if kierk gets fancy here or not

       Tagpoker Forum Forum Index -> Tagpoker Lounge Page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2