- Players post their reasoning for the hands in a spoiler and their actions outside it, they can't look at the other player spoilers.
- Observers can comment using spoilers, players can't read it till after the game.
- Dealers can be subbed at any time. Players are expected to play trough or concede/draw.
- No angle-shooting.
Optional rules
- Use of tools forbidden.
Essentially a dealer deals hole cards & flop, turn & river which are all spoilered and players act not spoilered but post their reasoning in a spoiler.
Sounds more complicated than it is.
BetMagicMoney
exactually as above, i'll be happy to play another game on here
forced
cool... someone start one... Im interested.
kierkegaard1
i'll play. hopefully it wont be butchered like it seems to be on 2p2. one dealer, one game
BetMagicMoney
ok sausage Vs kierk
i'll deal, are we ready to go?
chesslw
lol you don't need to ask "ready?" in this game. Just deal bmm.
sausage
Shuffle up and deal BMM. 10/20 blinds 500 stack?
forced
seems to me this is potentially an excellent learning tool. To be able to follow the thought process of a player like kierkegaard (and others) is awesome!
Okay, give me till tomorrow, and if BMM hasn't turned up up, I'll give it a go. If anyone knows how to do a spoiler on here, please let us know.
forced
[ spoiler ] text [/spoiler]
no spaces between bracket and word spoiler
Spoiler:
go!
BetMagicMoney
sorry guys been mad busy last few days (been grinding the live )
Game #1 Hand #1 - t10/t20 Blinds sausage (SB): t500
kierkegaard1 (BB): t500
Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:
T:diamond: J:spade:
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:
8:heart: 4:diamond:
Pre Flop: t30
sausage is first to act
sausage
Sausage raises to 40
Spoiler:
Pretty straightforward decision here. I have a hand which will play well post flop.
sandman369
This is a neat idea, looking forward to the match with reasons for each step.
sausage
BMM - Do you want to deal flop, turn and river so we dont have to wait once pre flop actions are complete?
kierkegaard1
folds
Spoiler:
nothing to add
sausage
More cards please dealer.
Btw blinds up every 10 hands?
chesslw
Where has bmm gone? Anyway if he is busy then you can take what I 've got from random.org (i take 9 cards each time first 2 goes to sb, next 2 goes to bb then the rest is the board):
Game #1 Hand #2 - t10/t20 Blinds kierkegaard1 (SB): t480
sausage (BB): t520
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:
Qd 10c
Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:
Kd 5c
flop:
Spoiler:
Qs 7d 10d
turn:
Spoiler:
7h
river:
Spoiler:
3h
Pre Flop: t30
Kierkegaard1 to act
sausage
Anyone can deal so yes let's use these cards.
chesslw
Well if stacksizes are wrong then you can correct it (but I don't see how it's wrong tbh- last hand kierk folded big blind to you- so your stack is 520, and his is 480?).
The main thing is I've dealt 9 random cards- and you can play from there.
And yeah you can say blinds increase every 10 hands (though it doesn't really matter this short tbh).
sausage
Edited the previous message, had a brainfart stack sizes are right.
BetMagicMoney
sorry guys, yes anyone can deal right in the middle of doing uni coursework so im crazy busy atm, i'll try and keep up with this is much as i can <3
kierkegaard1
raise to 45
Spoiler:
this raise size should throw off villains ranges a little
sausage
Sausage folds.
Comments to follow.
More cards please.
chesslw
Game #1 Hand #3 - t10/t20 Blinds sausage (SB): t500
kierkegaard1 (BB): t500
Dealt to sausage
this raise size should throw off villains ranges a little
Spoiler:
This interests me, what do people think about making it 45? will this make any real difference Vs making it 40??
Spoiler:
Idk but apparently R-Q and H2Olga both raise to t45 at 23-25bb. I've thought about it- and I think it just sets up stacks better to increase the EV for sb:
Say both are at t500, and bb flats pre. Then pot is 90 whilst both are at t455. Then if the cbet of 45 is called both will have 410, pot is 180. Then a turn bet of say 110 sets up a perfect river shove if called as pot is 400 and the shove is 300. This puts maximum pressure on the bb making him "indifferent" to calling/folding on all streets in an ideal, optimal game (or something like that). If you minraise, in order to get stacks in one of the streets postflop will involve a biggish bet than normal, and it doesn't "feel" optimal to me...
Of course the problem with this is it increased the EV of bb's 3bet jamming preflop- but if you call perfectly, a 3bet jam/fold strategy for the bb is still exploitable with 5 more chips of dead money pre, at least with stacks greater than 23bbish.
Tbh you may just ignore what I just said as it might be complete rubbish- I think the main reason ppl raise to t45 is that most players don't adapt their ranges well vs this raise size as it is uncommon.
sausage
Hand 2
Spoiler:
I am going to have to check fold so many flops if I call here as I am clearly going to hit the flop hard very rarely & I expect Kierk to cbet 80-85% of the time
sausage
Hand 3:
Sausage folds
Spoiler:
Obviously tempting to raise here, but I have a weak unconnected hand & given that both previous hands have been folded preflop I think there is a fairly high probability that Kierk will play back either preflop or on the flop
chesslw
Game #1 Hand #4 - t10/t20 Blinds kierkegaard1 (SB): t510
sausage (BB): t490
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:
6c Js
Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:
4h 2c
flop:
Spoiler:
2s 10h 7c
turn:
Spoiler:
4d
river:
Spoiler:
5s
Pre Flop: t30
kierkegaard1 to act
kierkegaard1
raise to 45
Spoiler:
as before
sausage
Sausage folds
chesslw
Game #1 Hand #5 - t10/t20 Blinds sausage (SB): t470
kierkegaard1 (BB): t530
Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:
Qc 9c
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:
3d 9d
flop:
Spoiler:
6s 5c 7h
turn:
Spoiler:
9h
river:
Spoiler:
5s
Pre Flop: t30
sausage to act
sausage
Sausage raises to 40
Spoiler:
Pretty hand. Interesting spot if he 3 bets here
U Cook Socks
edited.
sausage
I am a fish at posting spoilers
U Cook Socks
I'd be no good playing this anyway, I'd definitely cheat.
i think this raise size should strengthen my range. as if im looking for action after the 2 last folds
Spoiler:
What's the general population tendencies are regarding raise sizing? There is an argument that can be made for betting bigger to bluff and smaller to get action, but also another logical argument for betting bigger with better hands. Readless in a superturbo would you raise to t45 or t40 first hand with either AA or 57o? And what would you expect the average villain does?
And for reacting to different raise sizes, should we just try to be unexploitable readless?
For example- if you face a 3x first hand in a superturbo, will you have a flatting range or a 3bet bluffjam range at all? Because if not, then you will be highly exploited by the "exploitable" 3x from the button 25bb deep.
sausage
Sausage calls
Spoiler:
Playable hand that can make good top pair hands. No reason to tuirn it into a bluff by 3 betting
BetMagicMoney
@chesslw
Spoiler:
personally i like to keep my raise sizing the same, how ever if im to mix it up for say my first hand and i want to get value, i go bigger as i assume people will still call you wide as they might think your a fish etc
Playable hand that can make good top pair hands. No reason to tuirn it into a bluff by 3 betting
Stop angleshooting sausage :p you're to act as flop is dealt.
sausage
Oops confused due to lack of flops
sausage
Sausage checks
Spoiler:
If I lead here it looks like an air bluff or a weak pair so am likely to get played back at a ton. Still ahead of Kierk's raise, cbet range so likely to call a flop bet depending on his sizing
kierkegaard1
bet 35
Spoiler:
betting smaller as i feel it strengthens my range and sets up stack sizes to triple off here in a spot where an A is def in my perceived range and v hard for sausage to have one
sausage
Sausage calls
Spoiler:
I expect Kierk to bet 100% of his range on this board so we are ahead of his range and call as planned.
sausage
Sausage checks
sausage
Spoiler:
Not the best turn given we don't have a heart in our hand. The plan was to check call again, but we may have to check fold now as we are going to be lost on the river if we check call.
sausage
Spoiler:
Would be interested to see some thoughts on this hand once the match is finished.
Going to add a huge spoiler to bluff Kierk into letting me get to showdown for free
pretty interesting turn. i expect to have been called w/K or Q hi a bunch on this flop. barrelling to avoid giving free equity to turned flush draws. was prepared to barrell off 3 streets until this turns.
sausage
Sausage folds
Spoiler:
Not much I can do when he barrels this turn.
BetMagicMoney
Next hand Game #1 Hand #6 - t10/t20 Blinds kierkegaard1 (SB): t585
sausage (BB): t415
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:
Kh Tc
Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:
Js 2s
flop:
Spoiler:
Ah As 2c
turn:
Spoiler:
Kc
river:
Spoiler:
5d
Pre Flop: t30
sausage to act
sausage
Sausage raises to 40
Spoiler:
Sooted cards in position
kierkegaard1
raise to 85
Spoiler:
he can call with a bunch of stuff i dominate. too deep to jam, planning to sigh call if i get 4b jammed on
sausage
Sausage folds
Spoiler:
Not entirely surprised to get 3b here. Stacks are deep enough that a shove is going to be profitable with a hand that will still have reasonable equity if called e.g. QJs etc. but J2s is going to be in horrible shape if we got callled. He is cbetting too often (maybe 85-90% of the time?) that I don't think that we can call this small 3b even in position.
We are looking really nitty at this stage of the match so need to bear our image in mind. Unfortunately we are pretty shallow now so its going to be a little difficult to make any moves.
BetMagicMoney
Next hand Game #1 Hand #8 - t10/t20 Blinds kierkegaard1 (SB): t625 E:31
sausage (BB): t375 E:19
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Next hand Game #1 Hand #8 - t10/t20 Blinds kierkegaard1 (SB): t625 E:31
sausage (BB): t375 E:19
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:
Jd 8c
Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:
Td 4d
flop:
Spoiler:
Ac 6h 5s
turn:
Spoiler:
4s
river:
Spoiler:
9d
Pre Flop: t30
kierkegaard1 to act
Spoiler:
sausage needs to run better
kierkegaard1
Raise to 40
BetMagicMoney
@chesslw
Spoiler:
i agree
kierkegaard1
Spoiler:
a common mistake is to limp here or something in fear of getting shoved on and having to fold <20bb deep. i'd be raising close to 100% in this spot)
sausage
Sausage folds
Spoiler:
Tempting to 3b here, but stack sizes are getting a little too shallow (obviously I wouldn't 3b to 120, but if I did I think I would be committed to calling it off. A 3b here would also look too much like a spite 3b. Expect Kierk to be opening really wide (at least 85%) so I would get a lot of folds, but still doubtful if a 3b here is +EV.
BetMagicMoney
Game #1 Hand #9 - t10/t20 Blinds kierkegaard1 (BB): t645 E:32
sausage (SB): t355 E:18
Dealt to kierkegaard1
lol you fools, spoilers are always shrunk to minimum size before they're unspoiled
sidenote: you guys are WAY smarter at pokerz than me
sausage
Comments on PF raise
Spoiler:
Don't expect to get 3b bluffed much at these stack sizes. Expect to get called by connected type hands QJ, T9 etc. Combination of PF folds & flop folds means I can raise with most of my range here.
sausage
Sausage bets 40
Spoiler:
Perfect board to cbet. No need to bet more than half pot & I think a bet of 30-35 looks too much like a cheap bet to take the pot down. Not impossible to get played back at here, but we have no reason not to bet because of that. Pretty unlikely that Kierk has a strong hand here as I expect him to 3b his decent Kings & pocket pairs PF
BetMagicMoney
kierk to act
kierkegaard1
folds
Spoiler:
i missed
chesslw
Someone deal? (I'm busy atm on internet)...
BetMagicMoney
Game #1 Hand #10 - t15/t30 Blinds kierkegaard1 (BB): t605 E:20
sausage (SB): t395 E:13
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:
Kc Js
Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:
Td 4s
flop:
Spoiler:
3s 9d 9c
turn:
Spoiler:
2h
river:
Spoiler:
Jc
Pre Flop: t45
Blinds up - kierkegaard1 to act
kierkegaard1
raise to 60
Spoiler:
please ship it in sausage
sausage
Sausage folds
Spoiler:
Easy decision with this hand
BetMagicMoney
Game #1 Hand #11 - t15/t30 Blinds kierkegaard1 (BB): t635 E:20
sausage (SB): t365 E:13
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:
Jh Tc
Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:
Th Td
flop:
Spoiler:
3d 6c 6h
turn:
Spoiler:
5c
river:
Spoiler:
8h
Pre Flop: t45
sausage to act
sandman369
Either you got the blinds or first to act wrong on hand #10, BB can't act first! Man your typos really are bad BMM
sausage
Sausage raises to 60
kierkegaard1
all in
Spoiler:
still think i have some FE and when called im rarely in awful shape. too shallow to just flat
sausage
Sausage calls
sausage
Spoiler:
Obviously a great spot to pick up a premium hand on our first button at this level. There are some villains who auto shove almost ATC vs a limp, but no reason to assume this here. If we had been shoving of folding a number of buttons then we may have been forced to shove as a minraise would be somewhat transparent, but as we don't have that dynamic I believe a minraise call is clearly the best line. I think Kierk will reshove any A, any pairs, decent Ks, connected high cards & some SCs.
Nothing to say about calling the shove obv.
BetMagicMoney
and sausage holds next hand
Game #1 Hand #12 - t15/t30 Blinds kierkegaard1 (SB): t270 E:9
sausage (BB): t730 E:24
Dealt to kierkegaard1
Spoiler:
Ah As
Dealt to sausage
Spoiler:
Jd 5s
flop:
Spoiler:
3c 2d 8d
turn:
Spoiler:
8h
river:
Spoiler:
Kh
Pre Flop: t45
kierkegaard1 to act
BetMagicMoney
Spoiler:
pretty intrested to see if kierk gets fancy here or not