4bet small! 4bet small! He will jam! (AQo vs small 4bet)

Kim Cardassian · 4bet small! 4bet small! He will jam! (AQo vs small 4bet)

Sorry for not posting the actual HH, but I've only started playing on this room recently and HEM is acting really lame.

Blinds 10/20. Stacks 1520/1480 (I have 1480).
AQo in the BB.
He raises to 60 (unlike first hand, which was a minraise to 40)
I 3bet to 180
He 4bets to 420

Ok, third hand. First hand he minraises, I called OOP and he 1/2 pot cbet and I folded. Second hand I raise on BTN 3x and he folded. I don't know why, usually I just jam stuff like AQo without thinking about it in the 3rd hand. But here, I just felt like I was never ahead. Either flipping vs a pocket, or dominated by AK/QQ+. I have no idea why, but I just felt like he wasn't doing this with worse cards despite the fact that I had no evidence to the contrary, just the general feel I got from just 1 hand. I know it sounds frigging stupid, but it just felt like that.

I know I shouldn't be folding, but although I'm getting odds I don't see the need to play AQo OOP with such a pot. If he has me crushed I will usually still be crushed if I hit the flop, although I think AKo is rare with such a small 4bet so if I hit an A I'm probably good, but he will immediately put the brakes on with everything I beat and most likely I can only get a half pot bet out of him postflop (840 pot, +420 = 1260. I need 19% equity to call. I don't think I have that if my only good card is an A.

Shove: 600 in pot, risk 1300 to win 2960 when called, I need just under 44% equity. Against a range of AKs (to make it less likely, since I think such a small 4bet is rarely AK) and 88+ I have 36%. I think a shove is better because even with an uber small chance of a call with AJ or a fold from 88 it's +EV.

But like I said above I just felt like he never had worse here, I actually think the shove I made was still -EV and that a range of 88+ was actually pretty damn wide.

Is this just a case where I need to ignore the gut feeling and just shove it in? Is it never a fold unless you've played the guy before and know he's too tight to 4bet less?

"Tell me what thy lordly decision is on the night's plutonian shore."
Quoth the raven, "fold nevermore."?

U Cook Socks

I think you can just fold it personally.

ChrisB

Why oh why would you even consider anything else than fold here? We have fudging AQo OOP, easy, easy fold imo.

savrababa

I remember watching a vid of PrimordialAA playing the low stakes and he easily folded AJo in a similar situation.
I guess there isn't too much difference with AQo.

U Cook Socks

ChrisB

his range of hands isn't really super important in my decision making here because no matter what happens we are screwed. If we 5bet get it in we are either flipping or way ahead, if we call we play a pot oop and miss like 2/3 times, if we flop a Q we're not sure we're good and if we flop an ace we either get none or limited action from worse or is owned by AK

to sum up: just effing fold Very Happy

Kim Cardassian

You mean flipping or way behind, ChrisB?

Well, yea, ok. If everyone agrees this is an easy fold then I guess I'm applying "I'm never folding this the first 5 hands" in the wrong situations.

I do disagree with you saying his range is not important. Of course his range is important. In fact, which decision is the correct one is entirely based on his range. Even if he always calls with better, if he has a small amount of hands in his range that he folds (even if they're worse then ours) then it's easily a +EV shove because he put so much in the pot already. Although if he calls with these worse hands it's even more +EV compared to when he folds them, of course. But if his range is wide enough, then it's a win/win situation regardless of what he does with the worse hands.