| Archive for Tagpoker Forum A friendly place for winning poker players to share their strategy to making money playing poker. |
| N86xps |
3bet sizesHello everyone. I just read that thread about that impressive 15$reg. Started experimenting with some smaller 3bet sizes. I just had a thought, that there is a certain group of hands, that, if you 3bet them to a standard 2.5x-3x (7.5-9bb), you are effectively turning your hand into bluff when playing against a tight fish. It is AT-AQ, 99-JJ (roughly). Flatting has 2 disadvantages though: reverse implied odds (I am talking about early game), and missing value, since it is well ahead of the opp's range. I tried 3betting them to 6bb (if the raise is 3bb), thus giving opp the irresistable 3:1 odds, and probably extracting the most possible value. Also, increasing the chance of outkicking them for their whole stack (they are tight, yet cannot fold TP:)). Just wanted to ask whether such strategy is reasonable. Should I be carefull not to apply it against slightly better players? |
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| chesslw |
Would be great to hear some thoughts on this topic- since I'm a bit lost sometimes with 3bet sizing at different stack depth.
I once watched a highstakes 1k superturbo- where effective stacks were 14bb (I think it was livb112 vs iseeyouthrough). button limped and got minraised, then button shoved and got snap called. Turns out button had KK and bb had AA 
livb112 was bb btw. So I'm sure minreraising from the big blind as a 3bet is not too terrible either in some circumstances, despite it gives 3-1 (minreraising as in from 3bb to 6bb not the retarded 3bb to 4bb). |
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| Polycarpus |
There are a lot of arguments that can influence your 3bet-size. Hand strength should NOT be one of them! It's important to have your value raises and your bluffs the same size.
Factors that you can (and should!) take into account are: * Villain pfr-size * Villain pfr-% * Villain fold-to-3B-% * Villain call-3B-% * Villain 4B-% * Villain 4B-sizing * How easy it is to outplay villain postflop * How deep the effective stacks are |
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| Polycarpus |
A little rule-of-thumb I also keep in mind in this topic:
Make sure your 3B-size will not result - if called - in a pot that will be comparable or bigger than the effective stacks on the flop. Example: Suppose effective stacks are t950, blinds 25/50, villain raises to 100 and you 3bet to 300. If villain calls your 3B, you will be OOP on the flop, with 650 chips behind and a pot of 600, which is quite awkward. What do you do if you miss the flop? Shove and hope villain folds? Check-fold? What do you do if you hit the flop? Shove and hope villain calls with worse? Check and hope villain shoves as a bluff? So if you see villain raising >10% of ES preflop, and you do want to 3B, consider your sizing carefully, and ask yourself if 3B-shoving pre won't make your life easier here. |
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| BetMagicMoney |
poly FWIW i think 3betting to a "normal" size 19BBs deep is a massive leak (unless you getting fruity with AA but even then im not in love with it)
however your right in some spots 3betting really can screw with PSBs postflop |
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| N86xps |
I understand the sizes should be the same against a good player. I was not talking about playing a good player. Instead I was just suggesting a way to extract value out of a tight fish, that would hardly call with worse in that spot (early blinds, AT-AQ, 99-JJ). |
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| kierkegaard1 |
this just isn't true at all. putting in tiny 3bets/4bets or whatever when super shallow with nut hands is fine. it doesnt matter about the obscene odds you're giving the villain. If you have AA he'll call a small re-raise with a tonne of hands that will flop the 2nd best hand and that he's never folding post flop. in a really simple scenario, im 3bet shipping A5 for 15bbs in a vacuum but perhaps mini-3betting AA. my varied 3bet size is based on my hand strength... |