This will work in the end?

n1ghtah · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:32 pm Post subject: This will work in the end?

Okay so i got a friends whos looking to get into poker more specifically HUSNG Super Turbos at PokerStars. I was like yeah sure sure. id recommend normals as ST is obv high variance but that he doesnt care , hes seen lots of winners (Serkules etc) so why not start and get used to it immediately. I couldn't quite disagree. oh well

So heres a question. As ST seems to be a lot about calling and shoving ranges. I have a question or rather if any of you have any idea if this might be true or not

so i was looking at this site

HeadsUp Push/Fold Nash Equilibrium
http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/hune.html

So my question if, if you follow this chart by the book. Never one single hand off from this chart. Like litterally every correct all in by this chart.

Will you come out with profit ? Lets say after 10k games or 100k games. But will you be in profit if you strictly follow that chart ?

I suspect this chart is based on math probabilities. which makes me think it might be true. That you would come out ahead after enough games. Obviously you cant tell after 100 games. but what about 50.000 games ?

As this tool if it "works" would be a nice help for my friend. Anyone knows ?
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Brokerstar · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject:

It depends on how well you play when you're not in a shove/ fold stage.

There is a lot more play in these games than most people realize and you still need to make good, logical adjustments to your opponents.

There is no easy way to win at poker if that's what you're or should I say your friend is looking for.
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aggsyb · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject:

No. Nash equilibrium chart isnt actually accurate in terms of +ev shoving until around 8bb's. Making sure you have a correct open/f , open /c and limping range vs each individual opponent will always show the best expectation (unless ur shit at it)

n1ghtah · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject:

@brokerstar - get on skype more often Sad

hmpf
@aggsyb - okay.

-------------------

I am not looking to play these games, Nor is my friend looking for an easy way to win money. He knows after i have lectured him for hours that poker is a game of skill. I was merely asking because it seemed like many use it and if thats all what it should take to remove the luck factor in these games over a long long period of games.

Im not stupid to think theres an easy way to win at poker. As you know i grind FL these days and thats just not bet bet bet with TP always. (wish it was) wider hand range and all that sort of stuff.
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Brokerstar · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject:

But my point was more that just because a hand is plus EV to shove, it may be more prudent (you'll get a more plus EV reaction) from differing opponents by min raising or limping etc, even in the high blind stages.

I've said it a million times and I'll say it a million more, it's all about adjusting to your opponents and charts are not the answer to a game.

Hopefully that helps your friend.

I'm on Skype most days to be fair but with over 700 skype contacts, it's kinda why I made the forum. Plus there are better poker minds in here than mine I would guess, that can also help.
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n1ghtah · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject:

liar !

your the best , you started this amazing site. that makes you the best Smile

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chesslw · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject:

The charts are the solution to the game "sb jams or folds, bb calls or folds".

So if your opponent is jam/folding, or you are on the sb and can't find a bigger edge, then following the charts ensures you will get at least a minimum expected value. If your opponent differs from the charts in the bb, or is jam/folding a different range then you do as least as well as when villain uses the correct range.

However the charts tell you absolutely nothing about when villain limps on the button or minraises, or if indeed you can achieve a greater EV by doing actions other than jam/folding pre in the sb.

As aggsyb has pointed out it is generally accepted that Nash is no longer optimal beyond about 8-9bb deep (and hypers start at 25bb deep- so quite a long way off).
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U Cook Socks · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:20 pm Post subject:

BetMagicMoney · Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:51 am Post subject:

yer nash isn't +EV till <8BBs but it is unexploitable and there is a difference
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blsmur · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:51 am Post subject:

I have played a few super turbos ands the variance is higher than normal games

but if you can limp in or min raise and fold youll do fine the problem comes when you dont understand why you a limpimg and folding or of course calling and reraising .
if you were to read slansky on shov fold tournament play and the newer book Kill Phill these will give you some idea of some ways to play but I think without reads and taking into account your opponents play you might just find yourself losing a bit not profiting

but if you all in or fold only you would certainly be un-exploitable , but that is no guarantee to be a winning player , if it was then everyone would do it .

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