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StasKo
Grinder
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 126
Location: Israel
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 Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: Plan Vs. aggressive 3-bettor |
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i played today after not playing almost 2 months so i guess im a bit rusty 
my opponent was very erratic:
first 20-30 hands he folded his button almost always but 3-bet me a ton (it felt like he was compensating his folds on the button by 3-betting me when OOP lol).
i had a hard time to decide which hands to play against him as i wasnt too sure what my 4 bet range should look like..
in the mean time i decided to fold more of my buttons but i wasnt really sure what hands to call his 3-bet and hands to 4-bet him..
please help me with suggested ranges here..
is a 4bet bluff range similar to a 3bet bluff range (stuff like middle SC, suited gappers etc)?
should i open my value 4bet range against an opponent like that?
what about calling his 3bet? is it with the same hands you would call a minraise when oop or will it be a tighter range?
thnx in advance! |
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The Angler
Baller
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 458
Skype: jabular1911
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I think you'll probably need to give 3bet size, stack sizes (as you can call a min 3bet with any 2 deep stacked) and frequency for someone to answer your range questions as well as post flop play, was he 3betting and then playing really passive post flop or was he cbetting most of the time etc.
Basically I think your question is too vague for someone to be able to answer you in the way you'd like.
You could try lowering your raise size as well as tightening up your opening range and try limping a few hands, although I know a lot of people here will say limping is never the best strategy. |
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StasKo
Grinder
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 126
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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well about stack sizes he was 3betting me right from the beginning and it was a reg speed match.. so 1500 chips each and blinds 10/20..
his 3 bet size was almost always just under 3x - so (blinds 10/20) if i minraise he 3bets to 110.. when i raise to 50 he 3bets to 140..
about post flop play:
in the beginning of the match he triple barreled me twice after 3betting.
later i found out that he is capable of not double barreling (but he always cbet).
one time he flatted and c/r 3x post
EDIT: i went over the match and he also donked me once 2/3rd after flatting preflop
i did actually tried limping but he always punished me 3x. |
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two2go
Baller
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 416
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds like the type of player I wouldn't want to 4bet bluff against. You might want to 4bet a polarized range against a tight aggressive player who has a fold button, but this guy seems like a maniac. I would also be flatting premium pocket pairs (QQ+) as it sounds like he will be barreling off a lot. I would probably only four bet AQ+ and four bet shove some lower pocket pairs and possibly lower aces depending on his actual 3bet %. You can limp-call all the hands you want to play in position that you don't want to play a 3bet pot with, and raise call with good broadways. Think about how bad it is for him to 3bet a lot or punish every limp and then cbet the flop. He is putting a lot of chips in the pot with any two cards out of position. You just can't forget how ridiculously weak he actually is on the flop and play accordingly. |
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StasKo
Grinder
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 126
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| two2go wrote: | | Sounds like the type of player I wouldn't want to 4bet bluff against. You might want to 4bet a polarized range against a tight aggressive player who has a fold button, but this guy seems like a maniac. I would also be flatting premium pocket pairs (QQ+) as it sounds like he will be barreling off a lot. I would probably only four bet AQ+ and four bet shove some lower pocket pairs and possibly lower aces depending on his actual 3bet %. You can limp-call all the hands you want to play in position that you don't want to play a 3bet pot with, and raise call with good broadways. Think about how bad it is for him to 3bet a lot or punish every limp and then cbet the flop. He is putting a lot of chips in the pot with any two cards out of position. You just can't forget how ridiculously weak he actually is on the flop and play accordingly. |
about not 4bet bluffing him - that was exactly my thought during the match.. i had good indication that bluffing him wont work too often but on the other hand i thought to myself that i have to play somehow against him and i cant just wait for value hands or i will get blinded out sooner or later..
his 3bet % is huge - i roughly guess somewhere around 70-75% if not higher.
dont you think the range you would 4bet him is a bit too tight? because a range like that means waiting for hands and folding a lot from the button.
i did try to establish a limp-call range but it wasnt easy.
for example i remember i was dealt K9o twice which i limped called but had to fold to his cbet when i missed so i figured i will need different range of hands to limp call but i wasnt quite sure what range.
i thought that in this range i want to have hands that can float on flop/make at least 2nd pair type hands but since he barrels a lot i would face a lot of hero calls with those hands.
about suited connectors i wasnt sure if its better to raise/call or limp/call but when i think about it now i think limp calling them is better and then let him spew off his stack when i hit a monster.
generally i just feel that this guy gave me only 2 options:
1 - become tight-passive
2 - become even more aggressive than he is
and needless to say that i didnt like those 2 options. i think that this line of thought is what really stopped from forming a profitable plan against him. |
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kierkegaard1
Forum Veteran
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| two2go wrote: | | Sounds like the type of player I wouldn't want to 4bet bluff against. You might want to 4bet a polarized range against a tight aggressive player who has a fold button, but this guy seems like a maniac. I would also be flatting premium pocket pairs (QQ+) as it sounds like he will be barreling off a lot. I would probably only four bet AQ+ and four bet shove some lower pocket pairs and possibly lower aces depending on his actual 3bet %. You can limp-call all the hands you want to play in position that you don't want to play a 3bet pot with, and raise call with good broadways. Think about how bad it is for him to 3bet a lot or punish every limp and then cbet the flop. He is putting a lot of chips in the pot with any two cards out of position. You just can't forget how ridiculously weak he actually is on the flop and play accordingly. |
Inconsistent. You won't 4b bluff because you don't expect folds, but you won't 4b qq for value either...
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two2go
Baller
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 416
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| True, sorry i should have thought through my advice more before posting. It is nice to allow a very aggressive opponent to keep the initiative when we have a great made hand preflop though. |
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The Angler
Baller
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 458
Skype: jabular1911
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| You could try 3 or 4 betting QQ+ and then under bet the flop, gives the guy a chance to spazz out and shove/raise you. |
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YATHINNK
Reader of Souls
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 738
Skype: tommy.goodhead
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I think I would still 4bet QQ+ early though, against pretty much anyone. Unless I knew he was going to barrel a load OOP. |
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